Trans Ideology - a real life debate

[Forester1]

So something that is far too rare - a proper debate

For me positions can be summarised as:

Mark Glenening - free speech paramount - and shouldnt have compelled speech
Helen Joyce - Single sex spaces are needed - males need to keep out - however they identify
Freda Wallace - Me, me, me, my sex life, me
Peter Tatchell - Akin to fight for gay rights, black rights. I don’t see any issues. Be kind.

Fucking hell.

Pissed blokes showing their bits on telly, spitting venom at women and talking about their girl dicks.

"The right side of history"

so i got to the part where Tatchel basically said Dress = Woman and i remembered that Freda posted a photo of Freda this morning on twitter. To be fair in Freda's opening remark Freda did say Freda doesn't call Freda a woman.

Should have gone to Specsavers

Wearing fishnets with a bollock hanging out is not feminine.

Jesus. That's a sentence I never thought I'd write.

🤣🤣🤣

I wish Freda hadn't informed me men supporting Sex Matters love to bang him.

I mean, I'm a man who supports Sex Matters...

Peter Tatchell appears to be another person who thinks that if a woman wears a dress she's trying to signal to the world that she has a certain gender identity. The submissive, emotional ladybrained type, presumably.

I can only imagine that he doesn't spend much time around actual women.

And when women in the audience say that they don't have gender identities, he insists they do. Men are whatever they claim to be but women are what men say they are.

AlphaTransWoman

Out of interest, do you see Freda as an attractive woman in this photo too?

Given the difference in clothing.

Yeah, but now we know what you get up to at weekends

Freda is a busy bee this week.

Really enjoyed this, sitting quietly listening on my phone at work ...

Helen was marvellous - so clear and reasonable against Fred's boozed up fetishy insult-hurling loathing.

Tatchell saying "you wouldn't put all muslims under surveillance because some muslims are terrorists"

well. Frankly. Young muslim men ARE under more surveillance, even from Joe public. Secondly: we keep all men out so that we are very sure that sex based spaces are sex based spaces.

Freda interrupted Helen at that point, and Helen said "i'm speaking" and from Freda, sotto voce, you could clearly hear "well stop talking"

Freda’s interruptions were the unreasonable icing on Freda’s unreasonable cake.

Tatchell "Black people have said they don't want to be referred to as the n-word."

Did he miss the part where black people asked the TRA lobby not to drag them into this discussion?

Tatchell says you mustn't generalise.

And then says well obviously you can generalise with all men, but not those men who don't want you to.

It is absolutely fascinating. Talking about respect. So where does he stand on the TRAs screaming at LWS events?

Checking diary...

Shouldn't that sign say "get pissed with a souse"?

Have you got cataracts?

I think the picture of Freda manspreading in camouflage trousers would really confuse our Peter.

I see what you mean. Clothing is unbelievably powerful, isn't it?

Tatchell has a problem with "generalisation" but we have to make laws and regulations based on generalisations. Edge cases don't make good law.

When he talked about the tiny transwoman footballer - he said each case needs to be handled individually.

So where does the blanket "trans women prisoners should go in women's prisons" come from

Also "Biology is not our destiny" i was ALMOST warming to him. He has been misunderstanding that chant for 50 years.

And again: where are trans men in all this

Yes. It's all about following the stats.
There are patterns in behaviours and they can be attributed to stereotypes to a degree. So in this case: age, religion, sex. I should imagine a white Muslim in this demographic would be considered a similar risk as other Muslims at a guess. There are definitely issues with racism in the police force but the stats are key to providing a measured mitigation/response to any threat.

An example of purely sex-based stereotyping being validated as a notable behaviour pattern is car insurance. 17 year old boys' car insurance is far higher a cost than that for 17 year old girls because of known- risk profiling. They are more likely (at a statistically noticeable level) to be drawn towards fast cars and riskier behaviour than girls their age. This is cultural. Not all men are drawn towards behaving in this way or a love of fast cars and all the other stereotypes that go with that. But statistically, there are more boys at the Andrew Tate end of the bell-curve than Mr Menno. Disclaimer: I have no idea what Mr Menno's views are on fast cars but he is very vocal about there being different ways to be a man. Either way, the insurance companies know what the patterns are and can therefore legitimately "exclude/discriminate" based on these.

As Helen Joyce says, when we don't have drilled down details (like these examples), we have to roll it up to what we do have. Interestingly though, there is this (screenshot below), which seems to be from a source that would be recognised as valid and unbiased. It shows that transwomen are significantly statistically more likely to commit offences for sex crimes than men (if the transwomen are in the men category too it won't matter either way for the stats skew because of the difference in volumes between men and transwomen). So based on this, and the precedent of things like car insurance, it would presumably be reasonable to treat all transwomen as a higher risk category. Even while accepting that there is a bell curve just like there is with the car insurance.

Only if you believe in sexist stereotypes.

To me a male in a dress is a man and a male in trousers is a man.