Trans Ideology - a real life debate

[Forester1]

So something that is far too rare - a proper debate

For me positions can be summarised as:

Mark Glenening - free speech paramount - and shouldnt have compelled speech
Helen Joyce - Single sex spaces are needed - males need to keep out - however they identify
Freda Wallace - Me, me, me, my sex life, me
Peter Tatchell - Akin to fight for gay rights, black rights. I don’t see any issues. Be kind.

Isn’t this a thread about a televised debate? Not a one poster 3 ring circus? Again?

"I have never encountered any difficulty or hostility from women, including when using female toilets."

No. You just have not ever registered the distress and fear of the women and girls who have encountered you in those spaces. You cannot even register what we are saying here on these multiple threads in response to your posts.

Has it actually started to sink in yet that no woman is going to display hostility or make any kind of scene when you are in that space? Has it?

No woman is going to make one peep or show any concern with you there.

Through FEAR.

I don’t think it’s derailed. I feel like we’re doing the live sequel.

Well it is a 'real life debate'. And there are so many lurkers reading this thread, they are popping up on the 'thanks' thingy, it is a powerful tool. Let them speak.

Who would pay good money for the opportunity to learn public speaking on this topic from Helen Joyce?

My admiration for her grows every time she takes part in a public event and persistently and with great authority, lays out her very clear message. I finally saw the video of the crowd pursuing Helen and Maya in Manchester recently. Their courage is remarkable, much as I am horrified by the necessity for it.

Oops, I may have used a sexed pronoun!

It’s just so hard to use she/her when male entitlement is leaking out all over the place, innit?

the debate segued effortlessly into this thread.

I am certain that AlphaGenderPerson's pronouns are I/me/mine.

Or me/me/me?

I can't help but think that Alpha is trying to distract us from the brilliance of Helen Joyce.

That's as may be, but as Helen herself said the other day, about the debate, “When we speak, we win…when they speak, we win bigger.”

https://twitter.com/HazelAppleyard_/status/1718632456742469963

It must be a very hard lesson to learn that you can not trust yourself to be able to judge the reaction of women and girls that you encounter in female single sex spaces. However, trust us, women and girls are not about to give you any indication of their distress.

For instance, did you realise that women will fawn over male people that they are very uncomfortable with if they think it will prevent abuse? So, even the women and girls you think are being friendly and ‘fluffy’, caring; whatever fuckwittery you have used to describe your stereotypes, it could very likely be that they are covering distress and fear.

On that video Helen Joyce says FW did literally have genitals on display. Is that confirmed?

There's pictures everywhere. A rogue testacle making a desperate dash for freedom, but getting caught up in the fishnets.
Apparently it was the fault of the wadrobe department.
https://twitter.com/JammersMinde/status/1718316314324844686

@AlphaTransWoman here's something constructive, you are a man, you do not belong in womens spaces we have told you over and over again we don't like it, it makes us uncomfortable, we did not consent to our privacy being invaded by you and other men! Also as for not being offensive is that humour? If not then you are sadly mistaken because I and i'm sure many other women find most if not all of your comments highly offensive, but of course you wouldn't care about any offence caused to me or any other women because you keep on saying and doing the same things over and over again!

From watching the video I believe it was fat thigh showing through ripped fishnet tights

HOWEVER

1. I was not there, sat in the front row, as some were and it is entirely possible others saw things which I (fortunately) did not

2. The skirt and posture were certainly non accidental and if the criminal standard of indecent exposure was not met neither was the normal day to day expectation of people interacting whilst fully clothed.

did you realise that women will fawn

It was only recently that I noticed "fawn" has been added to the well known "fight, flight, freeze" response because it's so common. I know "fawn" has been a common response when children seem to be closer to the abusive parent but it's now been added to the others as an adult response as well.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/fight-flight-freeze-fawn.html

I believe 'fawn' works very hard in situations were women are at risk but feel unable to fight or flee.

Freeze/fawn IME are far more common in women than fight/flight are - perhaps because we know it’s unlikely we can physically fend off, nor outrun, a male attacker?

Caroline Criado Perez would say it's also because we're trip chaining a lot of the time. We'll be trying not to convey fear or alarm to children, older relatives, all while wrangling shopping, our own/others bags and coats, prams, walking aids etc.

https://www.londonreconnections.com/2019/mind-the-gender-gap-the-hidden-data-gap-in-transport/

We consider them offensive. And frankly the way you are protected from the real answers that people want to give you is bloody insulting.

Go and find someone else to bug. We see you.

We've seen horrible videos of how men who want to pretend they're women can behave when people fail to join in with the pretence.
With that in mind a woman would be very careful not to show any distress on encountering one of these men in their toilets. Because in the act of showing that they don't see a women in front of them, even if the outcome is distress or alarm, they put themselves in potential danger.

And I'd be pretending twice as hard if I was worried my toddler may be about to point it out!

I can’t say for sure from the video whether Freda’s nads were out or not, but if they were then the front row should contact the police about indecent exposure. Is this the ‘trap’ he claims to have set?🙄

Fight/flight is probably the default that everyone knows of because it applies to men. Just like all the myriad other situations in life that are overlooked because they only affect women, or affect women differently.