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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans Ideology - a real life debate

1000 replies

Forester1 · 26/10/2023 19:11

So something that is far too rare - a proper debate

For me positions can be summarised as:

Mark Glenening - free speech paramount - and shouldnt have compelled speech
Helen Joyce - Single sex spaces are needed - males need to keep out - however they identify
Freda Wallace - Me, me, me, my sex life, me
Peter Tatchell - Akin to fight for gay rights, black rights. I don’t see any issues. Be kind.

DEBATE: Does transgender ideology threaten liberal values?

Debates surrounding gender identity have gained prominence in the last few years.Trans rights activists have argued that trans people have a right to be reco...

https://youtu.be/Va3i-_Fbfpo?feature=shared

OP posts:
Thread gallery
48
DialSquare · 30/10/2023 20:00

'I'd rather be on Team Kind than Team Nasty.'

And I'd rather be rude than a fucking liar (to quote the great late Magdalen Berns)

EasternStandard · 30/10/2023 20:02

'I'd rather be on Team Kind than Team Nasty.'

Are you being kind when it comes to women though?

Froodwithatowel · 30/10/2023 20:05

I'm frankly terrified of using the gents, and I'm sure you don't literally expect me to wet myself

No fucks to give though about women who are terrified of using the ladies' when you're in there, and you literally expect them to wet themselves.

That's 'team Kind' is it?

Girlontherailreplacementbusservice · 30/10/2023 20:05

EasternStandard · 30/10/2023 20:02

'I'd rather be on Team Kind than Team Nasty.'

Are you being kind when it comes to women though?

Kind only ever flows one way.
Alpha regards women as vulnerable but won't protect them.

Girlontherailreplacementbusservice · 30/10/2023 20:06

Froodwithatowel · 30/10/2023 20:05

I'm frankly terrified of using the gents, and I'm sure you don't literally expect me to wet myself

No fucks to give though about women who are terrified of using the ladies' when you're in there, and you literally expect them to wet themselves.

That's 'team Kind' is it?

You can hold wee you can't hold blood.

Woman2023 · 30/10/2023 20:09

I can't help but think that Alpha is trying to distract us from the brilliance of Helen Joyce. We've done these tedious merry go rounds before. No woman would be so self-indulgent.

Ameanstreakamilewide · 30/10/2023 20:12

And my comment about Alpha was deleted. 🤨

The truth hurts!

Ameanstreakamilewide · 30/10/2023 20:13

catduckgoose · 30/10/2023 19:19

I wonder if he's enjoying the attention.

Like the usual Spanish air travelers do.

Boiledbeetle · 30/10/2023 20:14

If Alpha is having trouble with bladder control maybe Alpha should get their prostate checked.

Agrona · 30/10/2023 20:16

Woman2023 · 30/10/2023 20:09

I can't help but think that Alpha is trying to distract us from the brilliance of Helen Joyce. We've done these tedious merry go rounds before. No woman would be so self-indulgent.

i believe you.

Helen Is brave and wise.

Helleofabore · 30/10/2023 20:21

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/10/2023 19:16

Perhaps the people earlier in the thread who went on about how "reasonable" MTFs like Alpha are can begin to see the issue now. They'll see it one day, I'm sure.

I don't think so. Sadly.

DirtyDuchess · 30/10/2023 20:21

Frankly, he just makes me want to campaign harder.

Helleofabore · 30/10/2023 20:23

UnalterableSpaceCadet · 30/10/2023 19:16

16:46 - I feel like I am being unfairly categorized with those trans women who cheerfully march into any women's space they feel like entering even when a perfectly viable unisex alternative is available.

18:35 - I don't need to use the women's toilets. I need to not use the men's toilets. Because I'm not a man. That's the line in the sand.

Not using the men's toilets makes you exactly one of "those trans women"

Keep on saying it loud and clear!

There is NO difference between any of those male people who cannot respect women and girl's needs by staying out of the female single sex spaces. The dishonesty is trying to nuance this poster's decisions to make them more acceptable or palatable surely has to becoming very clear..... surely...

Helleofabore · 30/10/2023 20:28

ArthurbellaScott · 30/10/2023 19:52

Practically every post Alpha made on that AMA thread is offensive and insulting. I suspect it's no accident.

'My personality, as I perceive it to be, is more closely aligned with the behaviour I observe in women than that I observe in men'.

'I like the feeling of having a feminine body.'

'Having experienced the sheer joy of wearing dresses and skirts, I can tell you nobody is taking that away from me, ever.'

'I do, however, believe there are fundamental differences between the sexes, arising from the evolutionary roles of males as hunters and warriors and women as caregivers.'

'I therefore don't think that the presence of a cross dressing paraphilia invalidates a trans woman's gender identity or means she should be treated differently from other trans women.'

'I happen to be attracted to women, so as a woman this would logically make me a lesbian.'

'I can't tell you how wonderful it is to have a real set of breasts if you've lived for several decades without one.'

'I think ultimately is is about men tending to be more competitive and rational while women tend to be more cooperative, empathic and emotional. Men generally like to be assertive and in charge of things, women are more likely to to be kind and take a supporting role.

I've always been attracted to women and wanted be be a woman from a very early age because I value feminine traits over masculine ones. I also love the way women like to be attractive and wear nicer clothes.'

'I'm not walking into a room full of men standing there holding their penises while I'm wearing a dress. Can you see why that might be an issue?'

'I feel like a woman inside.'

'women tend to have low self-esteem and doubt their own abilities. They therefore lack the confidence to compete with men on a level playing field'

'If you must know the truth, it's because I'm actually quite a submissive person when you get through all the layers. And society says it's shameful for a man to be like that, but OK if you are a woman.'

'When I hear "She", I immediately think in terms of someone who is vulnerable and needs to be cared for, but is also a caring person.'

'I tend to be passive and emotionally dependent. I would consider myself to be a lesbian, although I realise many people here object to be describing myself as such.'

'one major privilege women get in prison - the right to wear their own clothing.'

'I'm getting tired of repeating myself. I only use the women's toilets if there is no accessible or other gender neutral toilet available. This is for my personal safety. Also, I should not be using the men's toilets because I am not a man.'

'I'm pretty sure I'm not the only woman with a penis.'

'I can't guarantee I'll never set foot in the ladies' toilet again, but if I do it will be only in an emergency situation. I'm frankly terrified of using the gents, and I'm sure you don't literally expect me to wet myself.'

'I'd rather be on Team Kind than Team Nasty.'

Thank you Arthur, your work has been appreciated!

Readers... if you haven't seen it yet, do you now see it? Do you see the complete disregard this poster has for any female and that inherent misogyny of that position? do you see the complete lack of understanding this poster has of any female lived experience?

It doesn't matter how often I or others say it, it doesn't cease to be true. Just about every single post has been laced with a systemic contempt for women and girls, not just usually directly, but absolutely indirectly. And this is a great example, a live demonstration, of why being kind got us into this position.

Helleofabore · 30/10/2023 20:31

Froodwithatowel · 30/10/2023 20:05

I'm frankly terrified of using the gents, and I'm sure you don't literally expect me to wet myself

No fucks to give though about women who are terrified of using the ladies' when you're in there, and you literally expect them to wet themselves.

That's 'team Kind' is it?

No. this male poster expects women who are terrified of using the female single sex spaces because they, the male poster, might need to use it, because there is no mixed sex option, to just not leave the house.

Because that is the reality. It would NEVER occur to this poster because they still have so much male privilege and entitlement.

Be kind everyone.... be kind...

AlisonDonut · 30/10/2023 20:40

Boiledbeetle · 30/10/2023 20:14

If Alpha is having trouble with bladder control maybe Alpha should get their prostate checked.

Most men can just pee in the bushes. Or an alley. Or anywhere really.

Unlike, you know, actual women.

Saying that a male needs to use the ladies toilets for their own safety because of their breasts that were a decision they made, puts their wants against the women whose spaces they are invading's needs.

It really is quite spectacularly narcissistic behaviour.

lechiffre55 · 30/10/2023 20:42

@AlphaTransWoman
Hypothetically if you were living alone on an island with all amenities, robots did everything, but there were no other humans, would you still feel more comfortable living as a woman even though there were no men and no women on the island?
If you had lived on that island since birth with no other humans do you think you would still want to be a woman?
The robots do not look like humans, they take care of each other as well as you, you want for nothing, they taught you how to speak and read. There are no pictures of men or women.

AlphaTransWoman · 30/10/2023 20:42

@ArthurbellaScott
Thank you. I'm actually very touched that you went to the trouble to putting together my best lines in one post for me.

Naturally, I stand by them all and do not consider any of them to be offensive. I'm grateful you have given neutral readers the opportunity to see them all together and judge for themselves.

Constructive comments are most welcome 😀

Helleofabore · 30/10/2023 20:44

It really is quite spectacularly narcissistic behaviour.

This bears repeating. Timely really.

WickedSerious · 30/10/2023 20:46

AlphaTransWoman · 30/10/2023 20:42

@ArthurbellaScott
Thank you. I'm actually very touched that you went to the trouble to putting together my best lines in one post for me.

Naturally, I stand by them all and do not consider any of them to be offensive. I'm grateful you have given neutral readers the opportunity to see them all together and judge for themselves.

Constructive comments are most welcome 😀

Such a blokey response.

Froodwithatowel · 30/10/2023 20:47

Yes. Do let me know if I can pop out and pick up some more kleenex. .

Helleofabore · 30/10/2023 20:47

"I was somehow "meant" to be female in terms of my personality and the way I like to appear."

Another for the classic lines.

No.

You were somehow 'meant' to be a male who likes to present as a your stereotypical view of a 'woman'. AND your personality is all male on these threads, so you need to start accepting that any female who has told you that your 'personality' is that of a female has lied to you. And that is a truly cruel realisation.

catduckgoose · 30/10/2023 20:51

It's unfortunate that this fool of a man and his sexist nonsense has derailed the thread.

stillplentyofjunkinthetrunk · 30/10/2023 20:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Tinysoxxx · 30/10/2023 20:52

AlphaTransWoman · 30/10/2023 20:42

@ArthurbellaScott
Thank you. I'm actually very touched that you went to the trouble to putting together my best lines in one post for me.

Naturally, I stand by them all and do not consider any of them to be offensive. I'm grateful you have given neutral readers the opportunity to see them all together and judge for themselves.

Constructive comments are most welcome 😀

Yes I think you need to screenshot the set of comments and show them all to as many people as possible. At your work, to your wife and especially to the people who gave you even more confidence to use the disabled and women’s toilets. I suspect they have heard you talk about your feelings already but putting them altogether gives special impact.

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