Page 19 | Edinburgh Fringe comic spat on and shunned by colleagues as a 'transphobe' for show about women

Wellies54 · 27/08/2022 20:57

For someone who is so sensitive, Jen Ives is surprisingly rude about their own father and a certain, late war veteran who raised a lot of money for the nhs.

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 27/08/2022 22:49

It's sort of irrelevant mentioning it but Cassie Workman, whose show Aberdeen is getting 5 star reviews and has won a Scotsman Fringe First Award for new drama, is a trans woman.

That's all completely 100% irrelevant to her show, which is about Kurt Cobain, but it's mentioned on her Facebook page. Workman is an extremely talented, hard working and engaging performer and writer.

ScreamingMeMe · 27/08/2022 23:09

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 27/08/2022 22:49

It's sort of irrelevant mentioning it but Cassie Workman, whose show Aberdeen is getting 5 star reviews and has won a Scotsman Fringe First Award for new drama, is a trans woman.

That's all completely 100% irrelevant to her show, which is about Kurt Cobain, but it's mentioned on her Facebook page. Workman is an extremely talented, hard working and engaging performer and writer.

That sounds interesting. I was a big Nirvana fan back in the day.

TheClogLady · 28/08/2022 01:27

Another Nirvana fan here. I’ll check that out. Thanks!

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 28/08/2022 01:42

TheClogLady · 28/08/2022 01:27

Another Nirvana fan here. I’ll check that out. Thanks!

Today is its last day.

TheClogLady · 28/08/2022 01:49

Perhaps the win will translate into a tour?

NonnyMouse1337 · 28/08/2022 07:37

Needmoresleep · 27/08/2022 18:41

Tickets for the show in 20 minutes. DH let me pick what we are watching and I have not explained why this. Have seen 3 very good shows so far today so he is relaxed. So if anyone sees a woman in a red top, and a man with an equally red face, do say hello.

(It was sold out yesterday.)

How red did his face get?

I'm so pleased that her shows have been selling out in the latter part of the Fringe.

shemen · 28/08/2022 08:40

Saw Elaine's show last night. She was amazing. Intelligent, passionate, hilarious. I learned things. Those who've been will get my name change. Thanks Elaine if you are reading and I hope you liked my spontaneous gift! I wanted to form a club with the women sitting around me. We had such a laugh together

Needmoresleep · 28/08/2022 13:12

NonnyMouse1337 · 28/08/2022 07:37

How red did his face get?

I'm so pleased that her shows have been selling out in the latter part of the Fringe.

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Very red, though he seemed to enjoy it. Elaine is a natural comedienne. Really fun. Someone in the audience had an amazing laugh, so much so that at one point I thought Elaine was going to corpse.

A really good show. Can we have a MN feminist comedy festival. Or one or two select standups attached to Filia?

TanteRose · 28/08/2022 13:16

@MNHQ I think Elaine would be a good candidate for a Mumsnet Q&A

shemen · 28/08/2022 13:30

That was my friend with the laugh!

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 28/08/2022 14:30

Datun · 26/08/2022 09:13

I know this nonsense has already been addressed, but also, it's simply not true. Of course the Issue is about vulvas and vaginas.

Transactivists can't actually eliminate vulvas and vaginas, but they absolutely try and eliminate the fact that they only belong to women.

So when a woman who is not only gloriously pro-women, but is uniquely placed to talk about female anatomy, dares to go public, she has to be stopped.

Because Elaine isn't just talking about female biology. She is unequivocally and determinedly connecting it to the only people who have it, women.

All the talk of pelvic floor exercises, menopause symptoms, both familiar and taboo, would be like a foreign language to most men. Something that is and always will be beyond their experience. Because, of course, it is not at all the sort of slant on female anatomy that has them glued to the screen on porn hub

It highlights the fact that women's biology is simply not something that can be detached from women, in order that the word woman can mean something else.

And it must really rankle that she's bloody funny too. All this esoteric stuff about women's unique biology, that's also making them laugh out loud?

Unforgivable.

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Nailed it as usual, @Datun!

MoltenLasagne · 28/08/2022 15:01

Sazzasez · 25/08/2022 09:14

Did you hear the one about the transphobic Fringe audience?

The comedienne said she was a lesbian with a pen!s.

Half the audience laughed and half didn’t laugh, and all of them were arrested for it.

Well I laughed 😅

Datun · 28/08/2022 15:03

Thanks Gasp0de.

its also that i'm just stuck a fresh about how female biology gets appropriated - always via the male gaze. The bits the that are copied, like breasts.

And the bits that can't be copied and aren't sexualised in porn, like pelvic floor issues, menopause, and things like pcos and endometriosis, are still deemed entirely unacceptable for women to talk about.

It's a difficult thing for me to explain, but it's almost like they take the bits that can be used, but we still don't get to have the rest. It has to be erased, even though they have no need of it, don't rate it, and can't understand it.

it just feels like women's entire existence is dissected, to be utilised, and then the rest discarded as of no use whatsoever.

BlueBrush · 28/08/2022 15:10

*It's a difficult thing for me to explain, but it's almost like they take the bits that can be used, but we still don't get to have the rest. It has to be erased, even though they have no need of it, don't rate it, and can't understand it.

it just feels like women's entire existence is dissected, to be utilised, and then the rest discarded as of no use whatsoever.*

I think you've explained it very well, Datun

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/08/2022 15:14

I think you've explained it very well, Datun

YY.

Artichokeleaves · 28/08/2022 15:21

Yup, that's how it feels to me too.

It's in part the terra nullis thing: a misogynist believes that anything not directly useful to a male is blank territory, meaningless, pointless, just waiting for some male to come along and put it to a good use.

And it is in the part the desire to just erase female women. 'Identify as women' has never reflected a desire to be with and part of women. But to take the whole concept of women, replace it with the male improved version, and discard the females as.... well. Some kind of subhuman thing with no words of their own. See dictionary entry for homosexual females.

Datun · 28/08/2022 15:32

Yes, it's almost like talking of pelvic floor issues and menopause is forbidden, precisely because it can't be objectified. What's the point of it?

Because it's not something that can be repurposed, and appears, horrifyingly, to be more exclusively female even than tits, its got to go in the shredder.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 28/08/2022 16:04

We've been socialised to shut up and get on with things without making a fuss, to put ourselves last, to keep quiet about things which are reminders about the bits of femaleness that don't interest men, e.g. pelvic floor issues. There's a pained surprise in some quarters when women insist on talking about these things. Not very ladylike! Not very kind!

It's been interesting (in a way) to see the bits of the female experience that some attention-seeking TW on Twitter latch onto, and also to see that some people who appear to be women fawn over them and give them a lot more uncritical attention and support than a run of the mill woman would get. Periods are the obvious one. 'It's my time of the month! I've laid in stocks of chocolate. I get so emotional and the cramps are awful. Don't let anyone tell you that transladies don't have periods because we do!'. Cue dozens of replies: 'You go, girl! I'm just the same' etc etc. The nasty cynical bigots who try to talk about biology, wombs, menstruation, progesterone and so on are blocked, of course.

FionaMacCool · 28/08/2022 16:05

Datun · 28/08/2022 15:03

Thanks Gasp0de.

its also that i'm just stuck a fresh about how female biology gets appropriated - always via the male gaze. The bits the that are copied, like breasts.

And the bits that can't be copied and aren't sexualised in porn, like pelvic floor issues, menopause, and things like pcos and endometriosis, are still deemed entirely unacceptable for women to talk about.

It's a difficult thing for me to explain, but it's almost like they take the bits that can be used, but we still don't get to have the rest. It has to be erased, even though they have no need of it, don't rate it, and can't understand it.

it just feels like women's entire existence is dissected, to be utilised, and then the rest discarded as of no use whatsoever.

Datun this is another of your posts that I will find myself using in everyday conversations. Thank goodness for people like you on here, who can articulate what I cant, mostly because my frustration short-wires the language part of my brain and I go straight to "oh for f*ks sake - that's ridiculous".

Datun · 28/08/2022 21:06

FionaMacCool · 28/08/2022 16:05

Datun this is another of your posts that I will find myself using in everyday conversations. Thank goodness for people like you on here, who can articulate what I cant, mostly because my frustration short-wires the language part of my brain and I go straight to "oh for f*ks sake - that's ridiculous".

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Haha! I totally get that. My FFS klaxon is never turned off.

It's why I massively appreciated, and still do, Magdalen Berns' contemptuous and frustrated snort of 'oh fuck off, you wanker'.

After all, it does just about cover every single eventuality 😁

ScreamingMeMe · 29/08/2022 10:29

Well this is interesting. Sometimes it's ok to get your dick out.

Edinburgh Fringe comic spat on and shunned by colleagues as a 'transphobe' for show about women

Calyx72 · 29/08/2022 11:45

ScreamingMeMe · 29/08/2022 10:29

Well this is interesting. Sometimes it's ok to get your dick out.

Gosh yes it seems so

TheClogLady · 29/08/2022 12:40

Has anyone told Jerry Sadowitz? Perhaps the surgical addition of something boob-like could get his festival invite restored?

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 29/08/2022 13:03

Calyx72 · 29/08/2022 11:45

Gosh yes it seems so

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On the official Fringe website Jordan Gray's show has a warning that there will be nudity.

Warnings and additional info: Audience participation, Nudity, Strong language/swearing

Jerry Sadowitz's show has no warning about nudity.

Warnings and additional info: This show contains strong language and themes some may find distressing.

There's also a big difference between appearing naked onstage before the whole audience and apparently deliberately unzipping himself in close proximity of and targeting one female audience member. Sadowitz did not disclose there would be nudity and it seems audience participation - i.e forcing someone to look at his penis.

And please don't make the excuse that Sadowitz said somewhere on some social media site about getting his dick out. That should have been disclosed on the Fringe website.