Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 7

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.

On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thanks Pyjamagame

As if coercive people just announce and state outright like... "yes, this in an event in coercion"

Quite!

Male individuals meet to in order to discuss their sexual access to lesbians.

i'd like to hear a non-discriminatory, non-homophobic, non-sexist justification for that.

I would have donated even if the outcome was a foregone conclusion not in her favour.

Absobloodylutely.

As with Sarah's case: the result is irrelevant. The sunlight just on its own is what matters.

Using ideology to overcome desire is basically the definition of coercion.

So you're asking women to ignore what their bodies are telling them to manipulate them into intellectualising to accept something their natural felt body instinct says no to.

QED

I did a proper Benjamin gasp!

Allison, you are amazing as you are the one who has got us here - a proper exposé and a ruthless unpicking of this ideology in public. It simply cannot stand up to scrutiny but fuck me, what a long road (and for Maya and for everyone else too) to actually get it scrutinised in public for all to see.

It's amazing. I'm imagining all of us (when we aren't watching/reading through our fingers ) punching the air and saying THANK YOU! This is what we have been saying, thank fuck people are actually catching on!

I'm so pleased and tired that I am inarticulate today.

Then she should have spent some time to find out, 3 years ago. Or maybe just - you know - asked Allison?

It really really is. I've also had several gasps. Not what you expect from an employment tribunal really, is it?

Wish I was asking the questions!

This is from an individual who works for Stonewall.

I hope the world now understands that Stonewall don't believe in homosexuality.

My flabber is ghasted.

MS keeps insisting on using the word assault instead of coerce. I'm sure that's not lost on the judge.

😂I'm glad I'm not. We'd have descended into swearing and name-calling long ago.

I am supposed to be working. Not done a thing. This is so amazing to see this all being unpicked and exposed in a courtroom.

I've just joined: are they on a break? If not I'll need to sign out and back in again

Using ideology to overcome desire is basically the definition of coercion.

If someone was having a meeting for chefs about trying to get vegetarians or muslims to eat bacon, I think the targets of the meetings would be quite justified in calling that out as being problematic. Even if you had figured out a new terminology for bacon as "protein leafs".

Even if "coercion" wasn't in the description of the event, I would suggest that it's not appropriate.

Yes on a five min break

@Lio

Yes, they are on a break

Fab, thank you

Dagnammmittt I had to mute it all so that I could explain to DH what the tribunal is all about.

Did BC at any point define what a translesbian is? And how that means intact males?

Wow, this is the first day I've been able to watch this live and looks like I picked a good moment. What an exchange that was! So clear to everyone not blinded by ideology exactly what that workshop was about, and watching MS get increasingly annoyed and stuttering just underlined it.

And rape culture is simply 'rape is ok', not behaviour & tactics to coerce sex!

yes. exactly right!

The vibe from this is reminiscent of the vibe from the more loose cannon witnesses from CGD but in a way they were sort of amusing because they were clearly indoctrinated. This feels darker, that someone who has to the capabilities to resist things like the Cotton Ceiling is willing to give it a pass because it suits her professionally.