Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 6

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets
Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Good question EJ
answer just wow. "feminist" shouldn't be a part of it...

I think this judge knows perfectly well that terf is a slur. Go judge!

Oh dear, liar has been caught out.

Oof. This EJ is making mincemeat of SK. Great questions from her.

It's quite something to see a SW representative not be able to shout 'transphobia' and refuse to engage with the speaker.

Did SK say he doesn't use TERF anymore because feminists he has spoken to don't like the word feminist to be used. Presumably he is saying that 3rd wave feminists don't like TERFs to be referred to as feminists.

I'd hope that the tribunal found the reading out example tweets from the terfisasur website threatening sexual violence, or using related language for abuse, would have stuck in their memory CatsOperatingInGangs

Judge us not having any of this note-taking 'oh, I've forgotten' rubbish, is she? Mr Reuby asking about recording notes at meetings. No SK doesn't.

Just seen PampersNoire in the observers list!

Yikes, now Mr Reuby is coming in for the kill. SK says he can’t take notes but then miraculously rustle ups some notes several months after a meeting. Hmmm.

That interjection by MR was very interesting and a good point

He's as sharp as a tack, isn't he??

So SK worry is that it is offensive to 3rd wave fems not that it is offensive to GC feminists. I'm not sure the judge got that nuance.

That was his exact reason - it's offensive to his friends and he doesn't care if it is offensive to people who believe in sex as a reality

'Do you ever use a dictaphone?'

There's a joke there....

On. The. Ropes.

SK believes he made handwritten or typed notes at the meeting. Doesn't have them now. Would have shredded or deleted them. Doesn't know why was prompted in June 2020 to write them up.

I’m sure Nauticant. Who can forget BC reading out “terfs can suck on my girl dick”.

No, i use my hand like everyone else!

Ah so SK is a resilience expert - obvious really

OK. I shall consult SK's site to see if this is in an individual or organisational/IT capacity.

Both strike me as equally implausible at present but I also know that I would be reduced to a quivering jelly under legal cross-examination although I'm fine with more hostile questioning that this in my own occupational context.

.

IO trying to get clear water between SK and stonewall

It's not terribly credible is it?

How much does it help AB's case if SK's credibility is in shreds? Given that SW are trying to disown him.

Why is SK being questioned? Doesn't work for Stonewall? Sorry if I'm being a bit thick, I can only read bits when the Wi-Fi obliges. Probably miss loads.

And am I right in thinking witnesses have been particularly vulnerable transmen?