Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 5

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Place marking for tomorrow (away right now)

Placemarking. And Big thanks to everyone for these threads. They are invaluable. I'm not logged in, and I find the tweeting a bit haphazard, so these threats are brilliant. Thank you!

Simon Fanshawe in the daily mail

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10811203/Trans-activists-wrecked-good-work-Stonewall.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ico=taboola_feed_article_desktop_news

I wonder if AH is still pondering on his plaintive question from earlier:
"Is a man reduced to a beard?"

@MozerellaSalad

Thanks for that. It's the best article I've seen in the daily mail for a while.

Simon Fanshawe in the Mail ..
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10811203/Trans-activists-wrecked-good-work-Stonewall.html
"This trial has become a spectacle of ludicrousness: By claiming there's no such thing as male and female bodies, trans activists have wrecked all the good work of the gay rights charity I helped found, says Stonewall co-founder"

All that work is now in danger of being wrecked, Stonewall’s reputation discredited, and its credibility squandered, by trans activists — not all trans people, I hasten to add — who believe they can dictate what everyone is allowed to say and think.

Squandered is a good word.

waste (something, especially money or time) in a reckless and foolish manner.

Goodwill, credibility, money and gay rights.

All bloody squandered.

Done. Thank you for the link.

If anyone else is interested in this:

• You do not have to live in Scotland to complete the form


• It takes about 3 minutes to complete 6 or 7 yes/no/don’t know questions


• There is a free text box at the end for additional comments, if you want (that could take many more minutes!)

Please remember that a change to self ID in Scotland will impact all of the UK.

That's a really important piece from Simon Fanshawe.

I was a postgrad student during the protests against Section 28 (1988), in which I participated. I'm no danger to anyone except pernicious governments, and even then I'll protest and campaign, not hurt anyone.

What have Stonewall become? What have they done?

.

Haven't been reading the tribunal tweets so not sure if they picked this up but Allison's riposte to the beard question included saying that she's lived in communities with gender non conforming people, transsexuals and LGB people since she was 17.

She was so fierce today.

By the way, I just googled AH and found the following

"In 2021, we are due to have not our first but second openly gay Master Treasurer in Master Andrew Hochhauser"

This whole tribunal is a triumph of diversity. It's a clash of ideology but nearly everyone involved is from one or more minorities. It's fab.

Yup, thanks to the organisation's shift towards a trans-extremist stance SW has now lost two founding members (Matthew Parris in addition to Simon Fanshawe) not to mention numerous long-time supporters like Allison. You would think that fact might tell them something is wrong...!

There's a new thread about Allison but every time I try to open it the app crashes - is it just me?

Same. Presume it was something offensive and has been deleted.

It was a goady post and used language no GC woman would ever use. I had a mass report deletion email.

I saw it, obviously to screenshots for twitter.

Are we 10am again today?

Yep. 10am. I was hoping for another reading day so I could get some work done but Allison will be relieved to be finished before the weekend.

Irony is lost on them, isn't it?

How heartbreaking for Simon to have to condemn in writing the organisation he co-founded that initially did so much good.

And how galling for KM to be publicly condemned by one of the co-founders of the organisation you work for.

Thank you for the reminder.
I should have done it long ago .... but bumping to encourage anyone else to complete this.

I've done it. Should also have done it before! Thanks for the reminder. I'm now all aggravated though!

Here's a thread on the Scottish self-ID consultation /////

How Scottish GRA reform could impact England and Wales www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4544862-how-scottish-gra-reform-could-impact-england-and-wales

/////

I tried to add ideas to it in smaller chunks due to the paragraph nightmare across the site, but still failed to make it easy to read!!!

one thing that was said that worries me was the notion of genuine trans being somehow different to other men trying it on. We can’t tell the difference so why would one group be recognised as safer in womens facilities. ie Allison may feel comfortable with those she considers genuine, but it does not help those of us who don’t see a difference.

From the DM article, referring to Donald Trump:
When people challenged his version of reality, he used any form of coercion he could to shut them up. But it breaks my heart to see Stonewall adopt the same sort of tactics.

I like how Simon Fanshawe has used the word coercion here. I wonder (hope) he is aware of its context in the hearing!

Place marking. Good morning.