Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 3

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.
You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.

On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, barrister for SW
RW = Robin White assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

This is utter carnage.

"Not a threat it's a fact"

Jolly good.

My gods.

Even if Alison loses this case, we have Stonewall's position set out in black and white on Twitter, for all to see. I cannot wait to find out what the columnists and papers will make of this.

The only reason I can see why this ideology has sunk in so far is due to misogyny. Either that or most of the people in power are dumber than I imagined.

They want TERF free toilets. Good luck with that one. You could start by using the men's.

KM making out that if any trans person had met AB at the GCC workplace there was a risk she would have violently assaulted them.

This makes me soooo angry. SW must be called to account - but will they be?

Aren't most TERFs apparently male though ?

Had worked for 7 years paid

Found this
committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/17259/pdf/

He missed out 'Witchfinder General for the Westminster Hundred'.

Didn't KM say TERFs are mostly men at one point?!

Jane Russell doing a hasty re-fluffication of KM and their worldview.

Thing is, this is not just another employment tribunal.

This is really quite an astonishing self immoliation by SW

{apologies for stating the obvious}

They can't do that as according to them there are many more GC Men than Women.

It is incredible how AB has coped for this long, knowing this is the kind of thing that was commonly believed about her among colleagues and their respective networks.

Yes, I can imagine GCC taking the line that Stonewall's Head of Trans was a threatening bigot whom they found alarming and difficult to deal with and put them in an impossible position, and look, they kept offering her work but she was sick or taking lots of time off or turning down perfectly good work and GCC can't be blamed for anything.

KM seems to admit that he wanted them to end their association with AB at the time he sent the email.

AH now trying to de-escalate him and position him not as a trans zealot with some alarming views but as a person who has dedicated his life to transgender issues and safety.

[googles spelling. Hopes people knows what one means]

De-lurking to ask a point raised by “bodies are neither male nor female”. This may be covered elsewhere, but is there a difference in perception of Trans issues and concepts in countries where the language assigns genders to objects, to perceptions in English speaking countries? Thinking of French (le/la) and German (der/die/das etc) because I learned those at school but I guess there must be others.

I know we can’t lump the U.K. and USA together because of the differences in culture and politics, but it would be good to understand other countries’ perceptions and whether we’ve fallen particularly hard down the rabbit hole in the U.K. Has anyone got any links or reading suggestions?

Before I relurk, thanks to the transcribers and the knowledgable commentators here for making it understandable for non-legal types. Much appreciated.

KM making out that if any trans person had met AB at the GCC workplace there was a risk she would have violently assaulted them.

The reason he is saying this, to my mind, is because he realises or his briefs realise that claiming trans people are simply scared of being invalidated in their gender identity isn't going to have the necessary weight.

Excuse ignorance but who controls which witnesses are called? If stonewall, did they know how batshit this would sound and, if so, what's their plan?

My head has been so bent out of shape listening to KM given full rein to his ideology that I'm struggling to focus on where Jane Russell is taking him in the re-examination.

You mean like this?

Yeah. To be honest most of my contempt is still for stonewall though. Not only for enabling this utter nonsense but also appearing to throw KM under a bus.

I am looking forward to media reports on todays evidence

Why is she pushing the idea that KM did lots of research when KM has said he minister research eg didn't read the Times article didn't look at responses to the tweets etc

Minimal not mister