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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Abigail Shrier - Marci Bowers - critical of puberty blockers

250 replies

ArabellaScott · 04/10/2021 22:32

Well, this seems potentially very important.

Marci Bowers, well known surgeon who has treated many 'trans children' is critical of the usage of puberty blockers in this interview with Abigail Shrier. Bowers and a fellow medic call the treatment of 'trans children/young people' reckless and sloppy.

Bowers is slated to lead WPATH as of next year.

bariweiss.substack.com/p/top-trans-doctors-blow-the-whistle

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RobinPenguins · 05/10/2021 09:39

They knew this. They always knew this, and they blundered ahead anyway. I agree with others who are wondering if lawsuits are coming and the net is closing around them. I suppose that’s a positive but none of this should ever have happened in the first place.

BatmansBat · 05/10/2021 09:41

Poor, poor Jazz. That is awful.

Melroses · 05/10/2021 09:43

With trans health care, there is very little space between those who are providing the treatment and those who are receiving the treatment. There must be an ocean of conflicting interests.

Datun · 05/10/2021 09:43

Is Bowers the who who hand waved at Jazz's chest and said the drugs did you a favour there, but not there, pointing at Jazz's groin?

As though it had come as a total surprise? After the event.

Shocked that taking drugs to block puberty actually bloody blocked puberty.

When thousands of normal, not HCP, not medically trained in any way, women have been jumping up and down, horrifyingly shouting stop!!! Because they knew it would happen?

Is that Bowers? Or is that another off-the-chart negligent surgeon actually confessing to mutilating children as though admitting it mitigates it.

And YES, the women here, on a parenting site, have been sanctioned for voicing concerns.

Censored for saying exactly what the surgeons are now saying.

It's kind of an overlooked problem that in our ‘informed consent’ of children undergoing puberty blockers, we’ve in some respects overlooked that a little bit.”

Overlooked? Overlooked??? Women across the globe have been yelling it at you through bloody megaphones.

Few, if any, other doctors acknowledge as much. The Mayo Clinic, for instance, does not note that permanent sexual dysfunction may be among puberty blockers’ risks. St. Louis Children’s Hospital doesn’t mention it, either. Oregon Health & Science University Children’s Hospital and University of California at San Francisco don’t. Nor was there any mention of sexual dysfunction in a recent New York Times story, “What Are Puberty Blockers?”

None of them warn the children or their parents? They don't tell anyone of the two major side-effects of this bloody surgery??

I sincerely hope that the litigious happy Americans will sue their arses to fucking kingdom come.

ArabellaScott · 05/10/2021 09:47

Bowers is the one that cracked a joke about how Jazz could be a porn star given how many photos they'd taken of Jazz' genitalia. On that film clip. Then apologises profusely for the 'joke'.

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NotBadConsidering · 05/10/2021 09:47

There’s another video, I posted this on the Keira Bell thread. In this video, Jazz talks about how Jazz’s urine stream is way off, and how there’s a lump which turns out to be a stitch that needs removing. Both of these things are advised to be common complications, but if they’re so common why do Jazz and Jazz’s mother look utterly surprised to hear it? That raises the question of how adequately consented Jazz was for the procedure, to only find out after the fact that a wonky urine stream is a common problem.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=EeH8PYyXocg

This is all in the public domain and has been for years. The implications of puberty blockers and surgery has been slowly outlined on a reality TV show for all to see. We’ve talked about it here. Threads have been removed. People have had strikes and been banned. And Marci Bowers wants a slap on the back for being brave enough to challenge the orthodoxy?

FOTTFSOF.

CandyLeBonBon · 05/10/2021 09:48

Wow. That's quite something.

NotBadConsidering · 05/10/2021 09:49

X post with Datun

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 05/10/2021 09:49

@ArabellaScott

Bowers is the one that cracked a joke about how Jazz could be a porn star given how many photos they'd taken of Jazz' genitalia. On that film clip. Then apologises profusely for the 'joke'.
Very locker room in many ways and indicative of how Bowers thought for a substantial portion of life lived in another fashion.
ArabellaScott · 05/10/2021 09:50

@EdgeOfACoin

However Jackie will have to endure a lifetime of complications from the 7-hour surgery that took place on the day of their 16th birthday.

Because Jackie wanted to play with dolls when Jackie was small and Jackie's dad didn't like it.

It's all there in Susie Green's TED talk.

Christ.

Actually, literally heartbreaking.

What have they done?

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WarriorN · 05/10/2021 09:50

Ah yes thanks Necessary, forgot that part. So those surgeries haven't been documented on tv then? Poor Jazz, that must be awful.

It's starting to sound like panic by these "professionals."

ArabellaScott · 05/10/2021 09:50

I mean not literally.

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WarriorN · 05/10/2021 09:53

Apparently there's a season 7 of I am jazz coming soon.

ItsLateHumpty · 05/10/2021 09:54

@Melroses

Green's tweet from the 2018 WPATH conference
I’m pretty sure Susie has deleted this tweet…. I wonder why 🤔 seems a bit rude to me. I’m sure someone has an archive somewhere tho, so no worries Susie.

twitter.com/Traceychlo/status/1060158099154259968

SisterWendyBuckett · 05/10/2021 09:54

I'm joining the dots at a rate of knots here. Careless, incurious, cavalier, bravado, amusement, and many other words that I'm not allowed to say here. I suppose boundaries and lack of safeguarding just about sums it all up.

TheABC · 05/10/2021 09:55

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

ItsLateHumpty · 05/10/2021 10:02

Very locker room in many ways and indicative of how Bowers thought for a substantial portion of life lived in another fashion.

That’s such a good point, and seems very obvious now. I miss some of this because I now auto swap the sexes in my head when reading so when I think of Bowers that kind of locker room chat and other behaviour doesn’t strike that wrong note iyswim.

ArabellaScott · 05/10/2021 10:05

@ItsLateHumpty

Very locker room in many ways and indicative of how Bowers thought for a substantial portion of life lived in another fashion.

That’s such a good point, and seems very obvious now. I miss some of this because I now auto swap the sexes in my head when reading so when I think of Bowers that kind of locker room chat and other behaviour doesn’t strike that wrong note iyswim.

Yes, it's very much objectification, isn't it?
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teawamutu · 05/10/2021 10:08

Brava Abigail Shrier.

And it'll be interesting to see how Mermaids, Stonewall etc respond. The usual 'right wing religious transphobia' schtick isn't going to work when it's actual trans practitioners speaking up.

NecessaryScene · 05/10/2021 10:15

The usual 'right wing religious transphobia' schtick isn't going to work when it's actual trans practitioners speaking up.

Don't think it'll stop them trying it. Activists are already are less than enamoured with the Tavistock - they get a certain amount of stick for having "transphobic" staff, cos they won't just do procedures+drugs-on-demand.

Revolutions always eat their own. There's always a new generation ready to step up and be more committed to the cause than any that waver in their conviction. They'll happily denounce Bowers, just as they denounced Blanchard, Zucker and Bailey.

Certainly is going to undermine them in the broader, still-largely-secular-and-evidence-based society though.

Datun · 05/10/2021 10:17

@teawamutu

Brava Abigail Shrier.

And it'll be interesting to see how Mermaids, Stonewall etc respond. The usual 'right wing religious transphobia' schtick isn't going to work when it's actual trans practitioners speaking up.

I'm anticipating a whole line of rats waving goodbye to the ship.
OvaHere · 05/10/2021 10:22

I'm still furious this morning about this.

So many good people speaking up for years about this and being punished for pointing out the obvious horrors of preventing children going through puberty and the path this sets them on for life.

Datun · 05/10/2021 10:24

The TRAs who scrutinise this site have been desperate for us to not talk about jazz Jennings, for obvious reasons. They spun it that talking about an individual wasn't fair, despite the fact that Jazz's parents were making Jazz the star of series after series of reality TV about their transition.

I mean, it's a neat trick. No debate is one thing, shutting people down. But censoring them for talking about someone who's entire USP is making people talk about them, is a step up.

littlbrowndog · 05/10/2021 10:25

And Scotland sending girls to England to get double mastectomy

Has there been any studies done on the outcomes of performing this major surgery on young girls

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 05/10/2021 10:30

@littlbrowndog

And Scotland sending girls to England to get double mastectomy

Has there been any studies done on the outcomes of performing this major surgery on young girls

There's a dearth of studies for a number of reasons. I've some sympathy with the lack of studies on girls being indicative of the relative recency of this phenomenon and young girls/women.