Women win guarantee over female only public lavatories - the Times

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www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7355c886-1aea-11eb-8493-5b46eb56a071?shareToken=4752a364029a4a557a2ba26a99d985d4

I remember the picture vividly (that kind of thing stays with you). it was very much of a chap in the ladies loo with a sword

Well, not in the toilet per se - iirc by the sinks?

@ErrolTheDragon

but it's unlikely in the real world that loos will all be upgraded to an acceptable standard.

More likely than provision being completely designed and deployed to facilitate gender neutral toilets. So why not let's fight for that?

Derailing not detailing, but that could also apply

Funniky enough they were suggested at he very beginning. And rejected

Gender neutral are only ever acceptable when the womens provision is removed entirely.

Any ideas why that could be JJ

So why not let's fight for that?

cos we don't want that jj. jesus fucking christ man, pay attention

you want it, you fight for it

i like single sex bogs thanks, so that's what i'll be campaigning for

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

And the sword was not in the toilet

au contraire mon ami

I remember the picture vividly (that kind of thing stays with you). it was very much of a chap in the ladies loo with a sword

The picture is here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3660642-Taking-a-sword-to-the-toilets?pg=4#prettyPhoto[gallery89167721]/0/

It looks like the kind of fairly boring municipal room you might find in, ooh, a fencing club? Certainly doesn't look like a toilet.

and people wonder why men love gender ideology

It's the free pass common or garden misogynists have been waiting for Bernard

@HecatesCats

Derailing not detailing, but that could also apply

How am I derailing, the thread is about toilets? Anyway I'm off out soon, but I'm here because as a long time mumsnet user this issue affects me and as such i think I'm justified giving an opinion on a public forum where people like me are being discussed.

So why not let's fight for that?

Women may well choose to do so. But, as it stands, rebranding such inadequate loos as 'gender neutral' ie mixed sex is clearly unacceptable and not in women's interests.

So. Let's get rid of this nonsense 'gender neutral' relabelling of women's loos. Make it clear that, unless already properly designed as single self contained cubicles , they are are single sex. And then from that clear base we can all campaign for whatever improvements we deem important.

Personally I'd go for the addition of separate large parent and child rooms. Good for all parents - that would be the sort of thing I'd like to see Mumsnet get behind.

and when using those sealed boxes I always have a moment of nervousness coming in and out, as if someone managed to get you and them in one of those you'd be absolutely fucked (you won't know about that kind of worry jj, so obviously it's not important).

Before I go, if you think that I haven't experienced both sexual and physical violence from men you are very, very wrong. Trans women are just as much at risk of sexual assault than non trans women, there is ample evidence of that.

jj You seem to be having difficulty processing what women on here are saying to you so I shall make this as short and as simple as I can:
We do not wish to share our toilets with men.
I see no reason to explain why. We simply do not want to.
We are saying no.
Have a good evening.

Non trans women ?

You mean women right?.

How am I derailing, the thread is about toilets?

jj I'd take you more seriously if you'd replied to my previous posts

Unfortunately, I don't doubt transwomen are the victims of male violence. But so are gay men. I don't know what the solution to male-on-male violence is, but it's not to open up women's facilities to males.

Make it clear that, unless already properly designed as single self contained cubicles , they are are single sex.

Can you imagine if this actually happened? The UK would be a global pariah. There'd likely be economic and cultural boycotts. Half the tech centre would probably up sticks and leave. Fashion and entertainment may well follow suit. And at the time when we desperately need it no trans person, and by extension their friends and families, would be likely to visit the UK. I saw one report that estimated 3% of US tourists are now gender variant to some degree.

North Carolina's bathroom bill nearly bankrupt the state and they were forced into a humilating reversal. No government is going to risk that, especially during a pandemic and the economic uncertainty of Brexit on the cards.

non trans women

so hang on, does that make jane fae a non non trans woman?

which means angela merkel must be a non non non trans woman

i think i finally see the light!

God, is it possible to mute posters on here? What a load of fucking drivel on this thread.

jj1968 I think that there already were actual laws providing single sex facilities and there are no laws that have changed that, despite the efforts of men to slip through changes that we object too.

I seriously doubt that in the real world, anything like that dire prediction would occur, if there was clarification that single sex meant what most people always assumed it did.

@ErrolTheDragon

I seriously doubt that in the real world, anything like that dire prediction would occur, if there was clarification that single sex meant what most people always assumed it did.

It cost North Carolina a fortune. Major companies pulled out and sporting compeitions boycotted them as did a host of celebrities who cancelled gigs etc. It was a complete disaster.

If you think companies like google are just going to sorry to all their trans staff, you have to use the men's now, or that people like Laverne Cox are going to come over here to promote their shows and happily use the mens then I suspect you haven;t really thought this through. Not even Trump has dared go anywhere near this.

A clarification wouldn;t mean anything without court of parliamentary backing. The Government can't just make things up as they go along. There is no clear law governing use of toilets, and all expert legal opinion recommends trans inclusion,a decision backed by at least one court. You need legislation, otherwise trans people will continue to use facilities inline with their gender and businesses and organisations will let them.

A sort of t* precipitated apocalypse. I see. Seems reasonable.

The hyperbole of jj1968 is very entertaining - we've got stem cell transplants which are going to magically turn an already fully formed body from one sex to the other, or the even more disturbing and dystopian view that stem cells are going to be manipulated in utero.

Now we've got everyone will leave or not come here because the existing laws on single sex facilities are upheld.

We've also had yet another massive contradiction - there are only what was it 0.03% of the population who are trans therefore most people won't notice and now there are multiple trans people and families - which is it jj?

@jj1968

and aliens will take over Planet Earth.

Stem cell and other genetic treatments will have a huge impact on trans healthcare that much is near certain. How far they will be able to go, and how quickly is uncertain, but it's not science fiction to suggest that things could look very different in 50 years or so, or even less.

I saw one report that estimated 3% of US tourists are now gender variant to some degree.

Here you go again jj. What does 'gender variant' mean?

And you still haven't answered this question:

What, exactly do you mean when you say 'gender'? Define the term.

Can you imagine if this actually happened? The UK would be a global pariah. There'd likely be economic and cultural boycotts. Half the tech centre would probably up sticks and leave. Fashion and entertainment may well follow suit.

This just makes me want to laugh out loud. Name check all the most misogynistic sectors why don't you: