Women win guarantee over female only public lavatories - the Times

[chilling19]

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www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7355c886-1aea-11eb-8493-5b46eb56a071?shareToken=4752a364029a4a557a2ba26a99d985d4

Tech? Fashion? Would we even be in this mess without them?

Don't know why that quote appeared on my last post.

A clarification wouldn;t mean anything without court of parliamentary backing. The Government can't just make things up as they go along. There is no clear law governing use of toilets, and all expert legal opinion recommends trans inclusion,a decision backed by at least one court. You need legislation, otherwise trans people will continue to use facilities inline with their gender and businesses and organisations will let them.

Here we go again, I was under the mistaken belief that you had a modicum of intelligence jj1968.

A female tolet by dint of being a toilet for use of those of the female sex is a single sex space. The Government are not making this up as they go along there is an Act of Parliament which states that use of single sex spaces can be restricted even to those who hold a GRC. The legislation exists already, unfortunately, businesses and organisations have been willfully mislead by the likes of Stonewall et al.

Fight for what ever you want that meets your needs jj I'll support that. What I absolutely will not support is your desire to remove all single sex facilities for women and no longer allow any women to have them, because males don't want them to have them. Regardless of the impact this may have on women. Because men want it.

Fuck that. Seriously. Why on earth should women lose things that work just fine for women because even though the needs of those males can be met in other ways, for example via the addition of single sex cubicles you suggest, just the knowledge that females have female only spaces to meet their needs is something some males just can't tolerate?

Males really are not intrinsically more important than females, and female rights aren't predicated on whether or not males feel happy with them.

Just a quick hands up: having heard a male proponent of enforced removal of all female spaces, who has repeatedly said in various ways (I lost count of the posts) that regardless of law, or impact on female needs or feelings, some males will just do whatever they want....

anyone feeling all reassured that having such males in female spaces where females are vulnerable is obviously a lovely, positive, unthreatening, mutually respectful thing that no one needs to worry about?

Because I'm really not.

I've said this a billion times, and here again - those saying 'gender neutral' toilets are a great idea - yes, indeed, in theory, but the whole point of this is that the trans women activist types insist on using the WOMENs toilets, so it just goes on and on.

It's the age old problem, isn't it Michele - women must submit to men, females are second class to the superior male, men must get what they want and cannot countenance or allow women to say no. If ever proof were needed that this is a MRA, misogynistic, sexist agenda and a full scale war on women dear old jj1968 provides it in spades.

On the other hand, it's incredibly helpful to demonstrate the realities of the attitudes and behaviours that underpin this, from male people towards female people.

Here it is in real time.

Very true

I'm in favour of cubicles for goodness sake. Theres no need for anyone to be partially dressed.

If you want to know why single sex toilets are important, and cubicles in a mixed sex space aren't enough for privacy for some women, read Baroness Grey-Thompson's contribution to the HoL debate about single sex toilets.

hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/2020-02-24/debates/D9459D1B-FADF-4765-AB3F-F55D4B322060/ChangingAndToiletFacilitiesInPublicBuildings

This is part of what she says (but it's worth reading her whole speech):

If there is somebody in an accessible toilet who needs to be in there for a long period of time, the only other option I have is to use the women’s toilet. In that instance, I have to go with the door open. ... I have to sit with my chair in the door of the toilet.

Michelle and Hectate - agree, but god it gets old.

jj does a sterling service in showing exactly how little regard men have for women, their boundaries, safety, privacy and dignity.

and like all the other irritants jj never answers perfectly reasonable questions put to them.

It really illustrates to me the aggressive intent behind any male entering a female-only space. The clarity it brings to the matter is stark.

It's purely to make women feel unsafe and uncomfortable. Fuck that.

So jj says the Equalities act allows transwomen to use women's changing rooms/toilets. The government have just clarified what we always said, that an exemption exists and even those with a GRC can be excluded. Now jj says that doesn't count as they are making it up and only parliament can rule on it. Perhaps jj you are just wrong...

Noo Apollo440 go and wash your mouth out, jj is never wrong and even when jj is wrong jj will just pretend jj isn't.

On a serious note the only person making it all up as they go along is in fact jj, and there's been some epic making it up as we go along on this thread.

This is starting to feel like some weird theatre of the absurd one man show. Quite entertaining in its' own way.

No . I think JJ has said quite enough on this and has been thoroughly shown up .

The picture is here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3660642-Taking-a-sword-to-the-toilets?pg=4#prettyPhoto[gallery89167721]/0/

It looks like the kind of fairly boring municipal room you might find in, ooh, a fencing club? Certainly doesn't look like a toilet.

And if only the creep hadn't also posted a gloat about having freaked out a woman in the "bathroom" (which I understand is American for toilet), your point might be a bit less freaking absurd.

You might be advised to check your links before assuming they make the point that you think they do, eh?

(Mind you, I have been known to take a double-handed battle-axe into the Ladies with me isn't re-enactment wonderful and I know that I can take someone with a sword using that axe, so my reaction might well be "wahey! Battle practice!" which I bet would freak out the creep even more than he gloats about upsetting someone else. And a good thing too.)

I would post experiences I’ve had with ‘transwomen’ in ladies toilets, but it would be ignored, or twisted to be my fault, or something by one poster who demands women comply with that posters views.

So anyway, it's good to have the reassurance from the government that toilets should be segregated by sex, and that women are perfectly withing their (legal) rights to raise the alarm if they happen across a man, of any or no gender identity, using the female loos.

Back to the article. It makes me feel uncomfortable. Why do they need to reference the civil service & BBC loos? Are the women there entirely happy? Plus this comment from C Noakes is uncomfortable on the context, bearing in mind she's in charge of the WOMEN & equalities committee, seems like she's nailing her colours to the mast here: “The government has said it wants to make the process of applying for a gender recognition certificate ‘kinder and more straightforward’, make it a fully online process, and reduce the fee. Which is progress — but is it enough?”