I despair of this debate I really do. Debbie gets massive flak from both sides, just don't get why people take a pop at her on here. I thought the issue was self ID, ie, that people who DON'T have genuine gender dysphoria could access safe spaces under the guise of self declaration. But if we are going to deny any trans person, who feels trans but wants to debate and listen to a range of women's voices, their identity then I am not on board. Trans people have been using women's spaces for decades, with a mutual respect and agreement, which is exactly what Debbie and others are trying to do. The balance, in my opinion, has changed, because of the aggressively misogynistic voices shouting down the anyone concerned about the potential abuses of self id as transphobia. If Debbie and others like her, who have been living as transwomen/men for many years, stick their head above the parapet to listen and empathise with women's concerns, to be told their identities aren't valid, then the belief that trans people feel erased by this debate is bloody valid.
Just to remind you, AdamBede, here's your first post on page ten of a thread in which a wide variety of different positions had been put forward by a wide variety of women.
It's bloody obnoxious.