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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

So what rights do transpeople think they don’t have?

406 replies

YuhBasic · 16/10/2018 23:01

Because I’m still not clear.

Sorry if this has been answered before 😕

OP posts:
Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 16/10/2018 23:02

I really dont think its been answered before

Watching with interest yuh

AncientLights · 16/10/2018 23:27

Nobody ever seems to come up with an answer to this. Unless it's the 'right' to go into women's changing rooms, toilets etc.

Materialist · 16/10/2018 23:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PerverseConverse · 16/10/2018 23:29

I started a similar thread a day or so ago and no one was able to answer/didn't reply 🤷🏼‍♀️

heresyandwitchcraft · 16/10/2018 23:31

Marking my spot to read the comprehensive responses.

BigotedWoman · 16/10/2018 23:35

This reply has been deleted

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SlowlyShrinking · 16/10/2018 23:38

The right to decide who has rights and who doesn’t?

AornisHades · 16/10/2018 23:40

Mine. Apparently.

beckysamantha91 · 16/10/2018 23:44

I think it's very difficult and I struggle with the trans - hating here.

I think there a minority of people who feel like they were born in the wrong body - and I respect that.

However the want to use 'female' changing rooms when there are alternatives to male on offer (ie group or disabled) I find tricky.

I am not an avid supporter of Posie but I have watched with interest. I think a lot of the views on here are far to strong, but I don't think it's appropriate for someone with a penis over the age of around 8 (with the exception of very special needs) should be in a female changing room

FFSFFSFFS · 16/10/2018 23:44

The legal right to self determine what sex they are.

Which they don't have. And there are many good reasons why this should not be granted.

But in terms of the trans rights are human rights there is no human right that they don't have that other people do. Of course I have no doubt that there is lots of genuine transphobia which breaches these rights. But the current trans right movement isn't really going for those people.

It's more about a harder to articulate "right" to be socially and politically treated as if they are their chosen sex. But this is the fuzzy one which can't really be defined.

Interestingly trans women don't seem to want to be treated like women are. Because you know a lot of the time it's crap.

ThisIsTheFirstStep · 16/10/2018 23:46

becky what trans hating?

Being critical of something does not equal hate.

I haven’t seen anyone say ‘I hate transpeople and I hope they all fuck off and die’.

I’ve seen people criticse individuals for their actions and be critical of beliefs that don’t line up with their own, which I’d say is a pretty normal state of affairs considering they want to infringe our rights.

MagicMix · 16/10/2018 23:47

They think they don't have the sex-based rights that they should have. Because they think that they can change sex, or that gender is actually the same thing and/or more important than sex.

If you accept that premise, they are lacking rights. But the premise is nonsense. This being the case, they have exactly the same sex-based rights as the rest of us.

But anyway, that's what they think.

scepticalwoman · 16/10/2018 23:51

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FFSFFSFFS · 16/10/2018 23:53

I think a lot of it is just pure male rage about women having more power. Plain and simple. Nothing whatsoever to do with gender/sex dysphoria at all.

Women have gained sex based rights which enrages some men.

So really it's less about what rights don't they have and more about what rights are women getting that they don't want them to have?

Because don't forget women have legal sex based rights because men have these rights anyway built into the structure of society. Women don't have extra rights - we have to have our rights written into the law to make men respect them.

Again - nothing whatsoever to do with the poor folk with gender dysphoriaband the distress they suffer.

FFSFFSFFS · 16/10/2018 23:54

If it was a genuine movement to protect transsexuals from transphobic breaches of their human rights mumsnet would really really not even be in the radar.

MagicMix · 16/10/2018 23:56

So really it's less about what rights don't they have and more about what rights are women getting that they don't want them to have?

Bingo. notthenewsinbriefs.wordpress.com/2018/04/05/have-women-and-girls-got-too-many-rights/

FFSFFSFFS · 17/10/2018 00:05

Oh good blog post!

It's really incredibly clever what they're doing. Remarkable. Using people (esp women's) want to be inclusive etc, jumping on the bandwagon of gay rights succeses, using "training" and other "expert"'positioning to distribute ideological orthodoxy.

Amazing what you can do when you have no ethics and a rage for power.

Again - it's nothing whatsoever to do with actual transsexuals.

FadingMint · 17/10/2018 00:25

OP: So what rights do transpeople think they don’t have?

I was wondering that too.

I wrote to my MP, asking her to try to attend today's women's organisations drop-in at the House of Commons. Her reply included:
"However, there are still gaps in trans people's legal rights and protections and I believe more needs to be done to ensure people feel that the UK is a country in which identity is respected and supported."

I haven't had time today, what with work and all else. But can anyone explain what "gaps" there are "in trans people's legal rights and protections" that are so bad that they overrule women's consent and boundaries, and the protection of children?

FFSFFSFFS · 17/10/2018 00:30

I suspect she doesn't actually realize that she has written

People don't have the right to decide what sex they are.

But that is exactly what she has written

Turph · 17/10/2018 00:36

It's on Stonewall's website. Clear as day. Except..it isn't. It just states that trans rights need to not be "held back" and can-we-have-some-money-please?
I'll keep looking.

So what rights do transpeople think they don’t have?
foxyliz26 · 17/10/2018 00:38

As a Legal Professional who has worked with Transsexuals many years , and as an ageing lesbian who has worked gay switchboards donkeys years, been on more demonstrations since before the first Pride Event can tell you this

People with that certain past and GRC ,s want to be left alone to live their life , the few who we know and count as friends who have attempted to engage on here have been shouted down so wont engage

outside of here groups like the Rain crew and Transsexual women's voices seem to get it from all sides so they rarely say anything public

I don't work Gay switchboards anymore or have any involvement with Transgender people , or have any idea what they want , they only seem to come on here to wind everyone up

so the feminist boards are just echo chambers now, so don't expect any answers

After reading this earlier I spoke to an old friend she suggested reading this ,and understand the difference between old school Transsexuals and Transgenderists who arent the same

transsexualwomen1.blogspot.com/

FadingMint · 17/10/2018 00:41

The rights of women girls and children are certainly being strangled and eliminated.

Turph · 17/10/2018 01:10

foxyliz26
I'd say the blog post is the majority opinion on here, there are some posters that are pro self-id and some who don't believe trans exists but that post, which distinguishes between the small number of genuinely dysphoric people and the hordes of TRAs, doesn't say anything most on here would disagree with.
Still doesn't answer the OP's question. What rights do trans people lack?

FadingMint · 17/10/2018 01:31

Yes, I repeat this too: what rights are lacked by men who seek to declare that they are women, so that they can have access to women-only spaces and spaces where children are protected?

Why are women expected to give up their spaces and opinions and their children's protection? So that men are given free access to women's spaces and roles, and are given a free pass regarding the safeguarding of children?

No.

I do not give my consent.

ApplesinmyPocket · 17/10/2018 01:44

The rights they want is for all of us, every one of us, government included, to agree that 'transwomen ARE women' and, thus agreed, they can and must be treated exactly like born women (everything a woman has, they must be allowed to have.) And anyone who says different is guilty of a hate crime and must be punished.

I'm sure that's it in a nutshell