So what rights do transpeople think they don’t have?

[YuhBasic]

Because I’m still not clear.

Sorry if this has been answered before 😕

They already have the right to obtain a GRC and they already have rights under the Human Rights Act and the Equality Act but they want to be regarded as women just because they say they are women, without needing a diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

Also at present they have to have their husband or wife's permission to continue in the marriage as trans before being able to divorce and even then they have to have their spouses permission to divorce

Everyone needs their spouse's consent to divorce, or wait 5 years. Of course spousal consent should be required if one party proposes making such a fundamental change as a legal sex change.

I think there’s something about not having to always justify themselves by constantly having to provide proof of who they are when others don’t, which is discrimination in some circumstances. Potentially also article 8 ECHR concerns about right to private life depending on the severity of being constantly outed etc.

However, I can’t see a solution to this for transgender people that doesn’t materymake women’s situation worse, and in a way that introduces greater harms (social harm vs physical violence and sexual assault) - so how to balance two competing sets of needs / rights?

What rights don't trans people already have? It's not at all clear.

I see plenty of demands and preferences. Since some of them conflict with the protections of women and girls I can't and won't consent. Especially not to sex self ID.

This doesn't mean that I dislike or fear trans people. I don't. They are people just like everyone else. Some nice some not. It's not personal.

@naturalbornwoman - just repeating the discussion from Woman Hour yesterday.

You can't expect people to sleep with someone when they are not interested in transgender people in that way.
For the record I never said that you had to! Just that I expect people to be treated with respect. I’m definitely not of the belief that anyone should have sex with someone they’re not attracted to and every trans person I know personally would say the same (I know there are people on Twitter who say otherwise but I’ve never met one of them).

We all want to be treated with respect, fairness and equality. The trans lobby seem to think they have a monopoly on this and demand to be treated 'more equal' than women. While saying they want to 'pass' as women, they really want us to treat them as better than. Very much in the vein of 'do you know who I am' and expecting everyone to jump to their tune.

If you were actually interested you would have googled it, this is just another thread for bigoted views to congregate around

i have googled

You are really unhelpful and really not doing transpeople any good whatsoever if you have the answers and are refusing to tell posters on here

And meead is being very unhelpful as well as they obviously have the answer and are not telling

I have really only heard this sort of non answers on this board

'I have the answer but im not telling you , you have to google'

Do you know how ridiculous you sound when you post stuff like that

Especially when other posters can provide links to information

@beckysamantha91 Please don't let them use disabled, if they are able bodied, disabled access to things like parking spaces and disabled toilets are already abused by able bodied people. The disabled need to have access to these things protected.
My partner is disabled and have often been waiting to use a disabled toilet and someone who clearly does not need to use a disabled toilet comes out.
Trans is not a disability.

The right to transpread and transplain. And to make women subservient and second-class citizens. And to invade women's private areas like toilets and changing rooms. To have everyone unquestionably validate their feelings. To take over all-women shortlists. To occupy every single post in every political party set aside for women. To win awards meant for women. To participate in women's athletic events.

Transwomen are not women.

Women do not have penises.

Women are adult human females.

As I see it...Transwomen want the right to BE Woman and Transmen want the right to BE Man ...err, well good luck with that.

Woman: (n) Adult human female.

And i agree with bernard

And penguin sounds lovely

I think the twaw attitude has increased the threat felt by women which is making this board more aggressive/assertive , with potential harm to the traditional, I am a transwoman who wants to get on with my life group of people for whom we have no name to distinguish them from others claim8ng trans. I think using twaw is is a deliberate attempt by activists to create such polarised attitudes. It isn’t transphobic

I think that lost group could be considered to be mentally disabled as they all have gender dysmorphia.

Which then just begs the question, how do you tell one from another. My best answer, if you say you are uncomfortable, the genuine group will leave. They will demonstrate female socialisation. Bit awkward then!

I would be genuinely interested in hearing the answer to the question out by the OP. I too have Googled and not found answers. I don't feel I can ask in my work context, although it is important to what I do. I am open to listening to all sides - that's what democracy is about. I haven't heard a sound argument for GRA yet, which refers to legal rights rather than social acceptance.

I think the TWAW thing is the crux of the matter.

Most of the GC feminists on this board (not all, but most I would say) go along with the spirit of the original GRA, which is that a GRC gives a trans person the right to be treated as if they were a member of the opposite sex, except for a small range of circumstances in which biology (or our social rules around biology) matters. So, reasonable exclusions would include women's prisons, women's homeless shelters, women's sports, women's open-plan, communal changing rooms.

The current range of transactivists want to be treated as women in all circumumstances. Including prisons, sports, homeless shelters, communal changing rooms.

However, they don't want to say this openly. So they talk about discrimination and harassment (which is wrong, and everyone would agree it was wrong, but isn't actually the point, because gender reassignment is already a protected characteristic, so transphobic attacks can be treated as transphobic, with the extra sentencing such crimes carry, which is as much as the law does for any of us, and more than it does for women, because misogynist attacks don't count as hate crimes). Then they twist it to make it look as though GC feminists are against trans people having protection from harassment and discrimination, which is a lie.

But what's really at issue are the practical consequences - do women get to say no to transwomen in women's prisons, homeless shelters, communal changing facilities, sports, or do they not get to say no?

Just to say, I'm positive that most transsexuals have a fucking hard time of it a lot of the time and I don't envy them.
But penguin about your friends difficulties getting a job-there's a thread at the moment by a very highly qualified and clearly competent and motivated woman in her 40s trying to get a new job and she keeps having interview after interview. .ask a lot of women over 40 or 50 and trust me they will say the same. There is a tremendous amount of ageism directed towards women (not men) in the workplace. And that comes after several years of not being taken seriously, being leched at by senior men and being penalised for taking maternity leave!

As for what rights do transpeople not have? Everyone has a right to dignity and to go about their business free from harm and I support that no matter how you identify.
I guess the right the transgenderists want that they feel they dont have is the right to self id, but sadly for them that impinges on women's rights. It's also a right that non trans people do not have: I can't self identify into the legal status of something I am not.
A lot of transsexuals, it seems, are happy to keep the medical gatekeeping that currently stands and I hope they fill in the consultation. ( 2 more days til the deadline!)

I think the problem, the discrimination and abuse, has been falsely linked with a "solution," that won't help at all. I think trans people feel that changes to the GRA will give them the power, but the campaigning for this power has actually set them apart. It's quite sad really (for the genuine transsexuals).

I think they feel the right to sue and call the police will mean people start treating them better. However, they are fantasising about life in the opposite gender. They aren't wanting the life of a large, unattractive female- they want the life they have idealised. I think they would be shocked to see how an ugly, overweight woman is treated at the interview stage, for example, but blame it on their trans status. I can't see what changes, legally, will help this, so can't see an end to the campaigning.

This campaign has made me more nervous around the trans people in my life, and I was pretty accepting before. I don't like the manipulation around suicide and I don't like people being ordered to be kind and considerate to people who don't deserve it.

Yes, how will allowing anyone to declare that they are any sex, with absolutely no gatekeeping, actually increase the rights of trans people? Apart from giving them the right to say they are whatever the hell they want and therefore have access to women's spaces and rights because they say so? This is what I don't get from the 'Recognise Me' video that's doing the rounds. It's not a human right to be able to say you are something you are not and have that legally recognised, is it?

Day to day, it's not actually going to help with the harrassment or discrimination that trans people face? They will still be seen as 'trans' when out and about and therefore will still be subject to the same things they are now (mostly from men of course).

If someone wants to be able to legally change their sex and therefore have access to rights and spaces that they really aren't entitled to, then there has to be some gatekeeping to that.

Good post pawsome.

Googling throws up...... no information.

It’s funny isn’t it; ask a transwoman pretty much any other question and they’ll expound at length about what they want and what they feel and how the world (especially women) should consider what they want and what they feel above all else.

Ask this one simple question and they get huffy.

They absolutely cannot come up with anything.

I’ve noticed it in Twitter, too. They’ll argue and argue but press them on this one question and they get aggressive and clam up.

Oh what a surprise.

The ECHR decision that was the catalyst for the GRA was hugely concerned with the inability of trans people to marry. Allowing same-sex marriage remedied that.

My best answer, if you say you are uncomfortable, the genuine group will leave. They will demonstrate female socialisation. Bit awkward then!

Good point.

I've come late to this, but a lawyer that advises the government on LGBT spoke at the Westminster Forum, and admitted there are almost no rights that trans people lack, compared to other people. There were three mentioned.

A period like maternity leave to transition.
No specific protection against non binary discrimination.
Not being asked to fill in discrimination questionnaires often enough.

That was it.