So what rights do transpeople think they don’t have?

[YuhBasic]

Because I’m still not clear.

Sorry if this has been answered before 😕

Hasn’t this all got a little out of hand?

We just want segregated, safe places for women and children.

Is that too much to ask?

Oh - and "woman" and "women" being defined by physical biology and reality, and not "gender feelz"!

But you are not women

*But you are not women

What???

What, me?!!
After giving birth to 3 (count 'em, 3!!!) babies!!!!

Could you be a bit more specific, please?!

Turph
Don't ask me I don't know ? ask the next TG person who comes on here

I don't even know what any young people want ?

Appears to be a misunderstanding here.
That comment was directed at the earlier comment that ‘trans women ARE women ‘
No you are not

Er, you're not addressing those people here, for the most part.

Sorry, I seem to have made a fuck up.
Will leave you to it

Aintnothingbutaheartache :

If you mean that women are women, and men are men, and that there is an intrinsic difference (e.g. biology), then please say so!

And for the record - I do fully support transpeople campaigning for their own spaces.
Just pointing out that spaces for women and children are spaces for women and children - not men.

Lets get something straight (sic) people have been coming to me to oversee their wills , or swear their oaths required for their GRC

the oath they swear is that they intend to live as a Woman , or Men for the rest of their lives !
all have been extremely pleasant people ,not one of the people I have seen , has had as much as a parking ticket , many have lived the most horrendous lives , been raped , abused, and jumped through every hoop asked of them

I am a consummate professional , I treat everyone with respect as a requirement of our chambers

And all the women who attend our Women only dinner parties are all women Straight and Lesbians
3 of our friends weren't born natal females , but they have been friends decades , you don't turn your back on friends

All our friends wept with me when I eventually found the daughter I had at 16 and gave up for adoption ,all supported me when I had a breast cancer scare like any female friends would

all our friends have been on holiday together and seen eack other naked , nobody had any problems

And all our friends are Anti Self Id !

If you were actually interested you would have googled it, this is just another thread for bigoted views to congregate around.

There are many valid civil rights issues facing trans people in the UK. But it's not on me to educate the willingly ignorant.

Have a lovely day.

*If you were actually interested you would have googled it, this is just another thread for bigoted views to congregate around.

There are many valid civil rights issues facing trans people in the UK. But it's not on me to educate the willingly ignorant.

Have a lovely day.*

This. Exactly this.

Googling provides zero information on this matter.

No one’s forcing you to educate them but if no one can actually come up with an answer then you can’t blame people for thinking that there isn’t one.

If you were actually interested you would have googled it, this is just another thread for bigoted views to congregate around.

There are many valid civil rights issues facing trans people in the UK. But it's not on me to educate the willingly ignorant.

I am interested. I have googled. I've followed trans activists in Twitter, read their blogposts and asked this question repeatedly.
And still have not received an answer.
I'm guessing you don't actually have one either or you would have told us.

Why do they always flounce off when asked questions? No we don't know. Please tell us what rights that every other person has that trans people don't. It's the insistence on unquestioning acceptance or they scream 'bigot' that gets wearing. Do you honestly think you can foist this sort of change on society without consent?

Listening to woman's hour yesterday I think the change they are looking for is to be able to identify as a woman without having to submit all their evidence to a panel of strangers who then decide if the person can no officially identify as a woman. It can cost up to £200 - because of various letters and consultations needed to complete the process.
Also at present they have to have their husband or wife's permission to continue in the marriage as trans before being able to divorce and even then they have to have their spouses permission to divorce.

If I've missed anything, I apologise.

As someone with a number of trans friends and colleagues (both trans men and trans women) I’ve well and truly had my eyes open to some of the shit some trans people put up with. Certainly more than I have as a middle-class white woman with a family around me. I’ve spoken to a trans man who was physically assaulted by a stranger in a pub (this particular man ‘passes’ 100% so i think the stranger was shocked and disgusted to find out his trans past - this was just someone he was chatting to not flirting with or anything). I’ve spoken to a young trans woman who struggles with relationships and ends up with creepy older men who fetishise her and don’t want to introduce her to their friends. I’ve spoken to a trans woman who can’t get a job because (despite being genuinely beautiful) doesn’t quite ‘pass’ so she always does well in tests, telephone interviews etc but the minute people meet her she can tell they’re shocked and the interviews never go anywhere. In fact a number of trans people I know are out of work during their transition (which takes bloody years) until they’re able to ‘pass’. I know countless people who were bullied as children, whose own parents threw them out of home or friends stopped seeing them when they announced that they were trans.
I don’t like playing games of “who has the most privilege” because I think you could make coherent arguments either way, but I certainly know that I personally haven’t put up with half the shit the average trans person does.

Just realised my post didn’t answer about rights! The people I know just want to get on with their lives free from hassle. They need somewhere to wee, somewhere to get changed etc, although many trans people find those situations incredibly stressful as they know they could get thrown out of both the men’s and the women’s so try to avoid those situations if they can. They would ideally like to use the facilities that match their gender identity so they can do the same things everyone else does without being given a hard time about it. Separate facilities that would ‘out’ them could be potentially dangerous and make them more vulnerable so I’m not sure that’s a solution.

Separate facilities that would ‘out’ them could be potentially dangerous

OK, lets just deal with this for a second.

statistically, trans people are murdered at about the same rate as women. That means that men who identify as trans are safer than men who don't

I have no doubt that trans people take a lot of shit, and that's absolutely wrong. But I'd like to see evidence that they are at physical risk from using the correct facilities for their sex please.

and let's just be honest about another thing for a moment

hardly any men who identify as trans pass

for the vast, vast majority of transwomen, even a casual observer knows they're male

so using the correct facilities for their sex will not out them

It's not nice that trans people face discrimination. But that is different to not having rights.

If those are the issues trans people face then let's address discrimination, hate crime and bigotry. Self id doesn't address those things, it gives 'trans' people the right to ignore sex based separation. Its only causing more anamosity.

Letting anyone into the ladies changing room isn't going to improve trans relations. Saying getting a pronoun wrong is a hate crime isn't going to encourage people to hire trans people. Shouting down women who speak concerns isn't going to encourage them to welcome trans people into their spaces. And I'm sorry that trans women find it hard to find a partner that isn't just fetishising them, but there is not much anyone can do about that. It's not society's fault for being hetronormative or whatever the new buzzword is, most people are only attracted to a conventional human body with traditional anatomy. You can't force people to fancy ladies with male anatomy and visa versa - and self id most definitely won't make a difference to that.

penguin women put up with all those things based on their sex too.

Physical assult: check - happens all the time to women, in their homes, in their workplaces, in clubs, on the streets
Fetishisation: check - look at any porn site and you'll see that old, young, white, black, Asian, hairy, non-hairy, tattooed, untatooed - there is a category for every woman, that is the very definition of fetish, we are just objects in a category
Discriminated against in the workplace: check - you can look at the stats for yourself, women find it harder to get and keep jobs, they find it harder to get promoted, they find it harder to be respected in the workplace (happens to me all the time - I have an idea, it's ignored, my colleague repeats the idea, he's a genius.)

I don't want anyone to be discriminated against. I don't want anyone to be assaulted/punched etc. Everyone should be employed based on their skill setBut you can't expect people to sleep with someone when they are not interested in transgender people in that way. I fully believe that anyone should be able to dress/speak/present themselves in any way they choose. They can even have an operation to give themselves a fake vagina if that interests them. But I will NEVER say that they are women when they are not.

Why should women be made more vulnerable so trans people are less vulnerable? That's the crux of the argument. Why should women shove up to make room as usual? Why can't men be taught to be less violent, more accepting? Why is it always women who are demonised (they won't let us into their bathrooms) instead of men (they shouldn't attack us in bathrooms)?