What's with all the transgender hate?

[Tiggy82]

I'm new to this and have been looking at the feminism chat and there seems to be so much hate and fear about transgender people! What's that about? And apparently you can't be a feminist and be accepting of transgender people, that just seems ludicrous to me, surely feminism is about equality, I am not pretending to be particularly knowledgeable on the trans subject, but i do think having equality for transgender people is nothing but a positive thing. Has anyone actually been personally negatively affected by a transgender person? Or is it all a theoretical fear?

With all the problems facing women it’s bizarre that so many ppl on MN are obsessed with trans issues.

Obsession is putting it mildly. I looked back through the board to find a page that isn't majority trans threads. This board's archives stretch back to 2010. Since then 324 pages of threads have been generated. The first 106 pages on this board consist of threads that were active or created since January this year. 90% of those threads seem to be trans themed.

Hi Tiggy, welcome to mumsnet. Good to have you here, we like it when people come to learn what our "fears" are.

Just reiterating that this link that NameChange gave you:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?pg=1

will help a lot.

Have a read of, say, a few dozen posts, then come back and chat with us.

Out of interest, what are your thoughts on changing the Olympics so that males and females all compete against each other?

Yes Nicola, this is very important. Without a workable definition of woman and female, all those other "women's issues" are toast. They no longer exist.

MrGHardy, I am serious, I am a feminist, under the definition (maybe my own) that I expect to be treated the same as men, and before reading this board I don't think I ever thought that trans women had that much of an impact on me as women and still don't, but there are so many posts about it, that I felt there had to be some feminists that don't think that way

I dont understand how trans women erode or affect women's rights
Ask yourself why women only spaces and services exist.
Safety, biology and privacy. Those reasons haven't disappeared. Most women here support the third space option.

Self ID is already the law in Canada; where a Muslim woman has been sued for refusing to give a Brazilian wax to a trans person with male genitals;
windsorstar.com/news/local-news/transgender-woman-files-human-rights-complaint-against-windsor-spa

A dry womans shelter is being sued for turning away a drunk man who suddenly decided to identify as a woman;
www.ktuu.com/content/news/Anchorage-attorney-faces-discrimination-complaint-while-defending-faith-based-homeless-shelter--487725491.html

and lesbians were banned from the Vancouver Dykes March.
www.feministcurrent.com/2018/08/13/lesbians-excluded-vancouver-dyke-march-name-inclusivity/

Does that sound like equality?

Thank you for the link champagne communist, and I don't think the women are liars, just because I think trans women are women doesn't mean I hate non trans women

Hi Lily. Put a jumper on, love. It's getting chilly out.

I am a feminist, under the definition (maybe my own) that I expect to be treated the same as men

So you don't think you should be able to have maternity pay from your employer then? Gynae healthcare? You're fine with a tampon tax and girls in period poverty? You think female athletes should race against men? You think pharmaceutical companies shouldn't have to consider the different impact drugs will have on women's bodies?

I think trans women are women

In what way do you think they are women? What does woman mean?

Why do women have to consider themselves equal to men if we actually have equality?

Sonicversusgynophonia I wasn't aware the olympics were planning on doing that, I wouldn't be for it, I'm guessing that's relating to trans people competing in sports, from what I have seen when trans people compete,it is not that straight forward, you can't just say you are woman and compete, lots of factors are taken into consideration, like gender reassignment surgery and hormone levels

It’s not really about transsexuals though but you would have got that if you read all the posts. It’s about the erasure of women. Shaun Fay is the person to look up on twitter regarding this. It just so happens that self id is linked to transgender ideology. Even if we ignore the trams narrative and see this as it is. Any male can encroach on the personal, sexual, emotional safety of females by saying they are female. Would you agree? Would you happily let a male into your female space because they say you have no choice and you have to take it? Where is the equality? Is this not bullying in its extreme? Is this not male dominance? How have we brought these woke people up to think they can shit on their mum?

How are you getting on with that thread we linked to for you, Tig?

Tiggy82, so, now you're aware of the rapist transwoman in a female jail attacking women, any further thoughts on how women can be protected from this sort of thing? I know this is whole new field for you, so it can be quite a leap from 'I don't know why you hate trans people, no one claiming to be be trans and possessing a penis has hurt anyone' to 'Oh, yes, women have been seriously hurt by someone using dangerous loopholes, that should be dealt with urgently', but you could give it a go.

you can't just say you are woman and compete

You can, not in the Olympics, yet, but in other serious competitions.

lots of factors are taken into consideration, like gender reassignment surgery and hormone levels

None of which change the fact it's a male body, which very different in many ways to a female body, and males that have had hormones and surgery doesn’t change pelvis shape, thigh bone length, make you shorter, decrease your VO2 Max, lung capacity, arm span, or atrophy your muscles down to female levels.

Tiggy82
You might think that but you'd be wrong. There is no requirement for any kind of treatment or surgery.

What's all with the wanker MRA?

Did you know there’s a government consultation to consider gender self-identification?

Currently, if you want to be recognised as the opposite ‘gender’ to your birth sex, you need to undergo a series of assessments before legal documents confirm you can be treated as the ‘ge see you identify with’.

If the bill goes through, anyone will be able to self-certify that they are any ‘gender’ they like, just because they say so. They’ll be entitled to be treated in law as the opposite sex.

Women here aren’t anti trans people. They’re extremely concerned that this new proposal in law will allow abusers to access women and girls without safeguarding checks.

Not anti individual trans people. Worried about unintended consequences of a poorly thought out law being pushed by an aggressive minority lobbying group.

You've supposedly read the threads enough to be sure that the moderators permitted hatred of transgender as a class, but missed all the other stuff.

Pull the other one.

because I think trans women are women doesn't mean I hate non trans women

Non trans women? 0/10

You were about 5/10 before you dropped that one OP.

"you can't just say you are woman and compete, lots of factors are taken into consideration, like gender reassignment surgery and hormone levels"

1. That is pretty much how it works.
2. No it is not. You need not have any surgery to compete as a woman as it currently stands.
3. That is true but the current level is 10 nmol/L - it is very rare for a female to be above 3.

Has anyone actually been personally negatively affected by a transgender person?

If this was an honest question and you wanted to learn something, the trans widows thread would tell you a great deal.

If you were a goady fucker (and not for one moment am I suggesting your are) then you wouldn't be interesting in learning anything.

I missed that Abouttoblow

Does that mean we are non-trans non-men now? What a time to be alive.

Hello Tiggy82 and welcome to MN.
Can you please provide links to the "hate and fear about transgender people!" you've read on these boards?
And where did you pick up the notion that "you can't be a feminist and be accepting of transgender people"? Because, frankly, the company you've been keeping has been misrepresenting feminism...probably for it's own ends too!
Another thing: *"surely feminism is about equality"^. No, feminism is about how patriarchy negatively impacts on the lives of human females.
"i do think having equality for transgender people is nothing but a positive thing."
A question for you: how are transgender people not equal?