What's with all the transgender hate?

[Tiggy82]

I'm new to this and have been looking at the feminism chat and there seems to be so much hate and fear about transgender people! What's that about? And apparently you can't be a feminist and be accepting of transgender people, that just seems ludicrous to me, surely feminism is about equality, I am not pretending to be particularly knowledgeable on the trans subject, but i do think having equality for transgender people is nothing but a positive thing. Has anyone actually been personally negatively affected by a transgender person? Or is it all a theoretical fear?

YY Lang. Tone policing on an obviously goady thread isn't particularly constructive behaviour either.

Right so there have been a grand total of two examples of "transphobia" since I went to bed. Firstly To have a bunch of never-had-a-hardship-beyond-Netflix-not-loading trendseekers come along and piggyback on people's genuine struggle is fucking insulting". I don't know the context (I don't recall the thread) but it looks to me like an expression of an opinion, albeit in a slightly caustic and humorous way. Anyone is entitled to disagree with that opinion, of course. But I struggle to understand how it can be transphobic. I note that Eagle has followed up the discussion with some statements which seem fairly sexist for someone who claims to be a feminist.

I'm getting my GFs mixed up. Was Eagle the one who thinks we need men in women's writing groups because otherwise we'll all just write about doing the ironing?

I'm getting my GFs mixed up. Was Eagle the one who thinks we need men in women's writing groups because otherwise we'll all just write about doing the ironing

The DH does all the ironing in these 'ere parts. I will tell him to join a women's writing group.

The other example given is the thread about a certain young women's officer.

IIIRC that thread was making the point that it would be unheard of to see a female women's office posting pictures of herself in her underwear, and if she did the consequences would be very different. That's a valid point to make, surely? If someone disagrees with it they are welcome to say so.

I am working hard to see the other point of view here...If that thread was being unkind to that particular Women's Officer then that does not mean it was transphobic. It means it was unkind to an individual. Whether or not that unkindness can be justified in anyway (i.e. because that individual has said and done some pretty terrible things in relation to women's rights) is another issue. Still no transphobia.

Placemarking to keep some of the superb posts on this thread.

If anyone's going to complain about tone, then I'm going to have to object to that person's use of the words "bitching" and "bitch fest".

I’m happy to respond even if the OP is a troll. As always online, you’re not talking to them - you’re talking to the people quietly reading in the background. OP, this was how I felt a year or so ago. I didn’t understand and thought that objections were transphobia but now I see that they blatantly are not. If you look at how much the TRA ideology has progressed you’ll realise that it doesn’t matter how much you capitulate, it’s never enough. We are now at the stage where we must accept that trans women are indistinguishable from real women, even those with no diagnosis or treatment, or else we are bigots. Do you think that will be the end of it? Look at the history of what’s happened so far. There are activists out there for whom nothing will be enough. We have already seen news articles about “groups of women attacking a man”, with no reference whatsoever to the fact that they are biologically male. What do you think will happen to women’s sexual assault and DV services when crime statistics fail to reflect the reality of male violence because more is attributed to women? What do you think will happen to female representation in business and politics when any man can identify as a woman (this is already happening)? Bunce admits he waited until he had progressed through the financial world as a man, benefitting from so much privilege, before deciding to wear women’s clothes to work on occasion and landing on a top 100 business women list. He’s not trans, not even by his own claims. What do you actually think the result of all this would be? If you are feminist, you should understand that women have additional protections and protected rights for a reason - you are essentially advocating for the removal of these rights. That is the issue.

I'm getting my GFs mixed up. Was Eagle the one who thinks we need men in women's writing groups because otherwise we'll all just write about doing the ironing?

Hahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa ohhhhhhh ma goodness

Ironically enough right-wing American men in the Republican party often also have strong opinions on the proper deportment of ladies.

AngryAttack has it exactly right. Who hates women? TRAs and right-wing Republican men. Who hates lesbians? TRAs and angry right-wing Republican men. Who thinks the fantasy of Ideal Womanhood was best and nicest circa 1950? TRAs and angry right-wing Republican men. Who thinks women shouldn't be allowed sexual boundaries? TRAs and right-wing Republican men. Who thinks a woman's place is shutting up and serving men? TRAs and right-wing Republican men.

This is so easy.

AngryAttack has it exactly right. Who hates women? TRAs and right-wing Republican men. Who hates lesbians? TRAs and angry right-wing Republican men. Who thinks the fantasy of Ideal Womanhood was best and nicest circa 1950? TRAs and angry right-wing Republican men. Who thinks women shouldn't be allowed sexual boundaries? TRAs and right-wing Republican men. Who thinks a woman's place is shutting up and serving men? TRAs and right-wing Republican men.

This is so easy.

Isn't it?

"To have a bunch of never-had-a-hardship-beyond-Netflix-not-loading trendseekers come along and piggyback on people's genuine struggle is fucking insulting." (because transfolk have so much easier lives than white middle class feminists with their board of directors aspirations)

You are statistically less likely to be a murder victim if you are trans in the UK than if you are not trans.

(You are statistically more likely to be a murderer than a murder victim in the UK if you are a transwoman, but that's a different discussion.)

Meanwhile two women a week are murdered.

Meanwhile the FTSE 100 has more men named John as CEOs than it has women CEOs.

Meanwhile a white, male, middle class Credit Suisse Director gets awards and placements as a "woman".

Do tell me more, Eagleitarian, of just how good women have it compared to poor, oppressed males.

I’m a feminist and pro trans. I have particular empathy for those with true body dysphoria and much less time for men that think they feel like women. I don’t agree with trans women (biological males) using women only safe spaces. Men have penis’s and testosterone after all. I also despair of the 1950’s gender stereotypes that children are being brainwashed with. Girls can be girls and like blue/rock climbing/football/wear short hair. Boys can be boys and like long hair/pink/ballet.

I’m a feminist and pro trans. I have particular empathy for those with true body dysphoria and much less time for men that think they feel like women. I don’t agree with trans women (biological males) using women only safe spaces. Men have penis’s and testosterone after all. I also despair of the 1950’s gender stereotypes that children are being brainwashed with. Girls can be girls and like blue/rock climbing/football/wear short hair. Boys can be boys and like long hair/pink/ballet.

This, I am afraid, makes you a hateful bigot and TERF and devotee of extreme right wing fundamentalist politics.

Labradoodle you've just described the position of most women on here!

(because transfolk have so much easier lives than white middle class feminists with their board of directors aspirations)

I'm lost here. Missed the original post quoted. Is there a compelling reason why white middle class feminists shouldn't aspire to being on the board of directors?

My dears, I think that was Labradoodliedoodoo's point

So Langcleg, which part is bigoted? Youd rather vulnerable girls and vulnerable women share their precious safe spaces with full bodied males (with testosterone and peniss) who feel like calling themselves women. You’d like girls and boys to travel back in time and adhere to 1950’s gender stereo types.

I’ve been a leftie all my life till this year. I’m now politically homeless due to all parties swallowing the trans stuff without giving proper thought to women and children’s safeguarding.

No, Lang is saying that according to the TRA dogma, supporting trans rights but believing those things makes you a transphobic bigot.

So not to be called bigoted women have to throw safeguarding our if the window hilarious

The only real response to this is show me the hate and what's with all the misogyny from TRAs and allies?

Well what's with all that misogyny?

It’s quite interesting that women with safeguarding concerns are called bigots but it’s ok for trans women to be intolerant of women’s/children’s needs

All i see is mysogony and sexism ...

😌

It's not at all strange how no-one has come back this morning with any more examples of transphobia.