What's with all the transgender hate?

[Tiggy82]

I'm new to this and have been looking at the feminism chat and there seems to be so much hate and fear about transgender people! What's that about? And apparently you can't be a feminist and be accepting of transgender people, that just seems ludicrous to me, surely feminism is about equality, I am not pretending to be particularly knowledgeable on the trans subject, but i do think having equality for transgender people is nothing but a positive thing. Has anyone actually been personally negatively affected by a transgender person? Or is it all a theoretical fear?

But you want to be treated the same, tig. No women’s sports. No right to a female health professional. No women’s changing rooms. No girl guides. No women only rape counselling or refuges.
I find your point of view fascinating, tiggy. Can you explain if your elderly female relatives and Muslim friends are on board with allowing male bodied people into previously sex-segregated areas and how you convinced them that women no longer required any rights separate to men?
I know quite a few transwomen. Mostly they keep to themselves and don’t wave their penises around in the female changing rooms, but one in particular seems to be under the impression that because she’s worn a wig for a year in her early forties that she now has the god-given right to run informative (mandatory) sessions in my place of work in order to tell the wims how awful it is that she can no longer walk home from a bar at midnight in case she gets attacked. She’s a victim-blaming bitch if I’m honest. Has a real bee in her bonnet about pointing out how awful and unaccommodating women are to her needs. Hasn’t stopped for a second to consider women’s needs. Including those of her heterosexual wife, who has had to leave her place of employment and move to a different city to outrun the ego.
It hasn’t even occurred to ‘her’ that as a man, whining to an entirely female audience about shit like that is counter-productive.
I’m 47. I have no desire to have a gender identity forced on me in my place of work. I do not want to have to have my preferred pronouns in my signature block. I do not want to introduce myself by my preferred pronouns in meetings. I do not want to be forced to house students by their self-proclaimed gender and not sex. I do not want to have to put ‘Suzie-Fae’ who is a six foot man with a penis and stubble into a shared bedroom with ‘Rachel’ a nervous 18yo from the arse end of nowhere, just because ‘Suzie’ says he is a woman. I do not want to be even partially responsible for ‘Rachel’ being traumatized, uncomfortable, and her leaving her program, or at best, being attacked for being transphobic because she complained about having to share with stunning brave bepenised Suzie. But here we are. And that’s my job. Sorry Rachel. You are not important. And sorry Rachel’s mum, I know it didn’t even cross your mind that the daughter you raised would be required to share a bedroom with a cock and fully functioning balls. I have teenaged daughters too.
I have no hate for trans people. But transwomen are men, and they really really need to stop with the wholesale trampling over women and girls to access gold medals, girls bedrooms, women’s business awards, and naked females in changing rooms, and then treating women like shit if they object.
Transgender ideology is regressive and damaging. Wearing a dress does not make you a woman. Body dysphoria is a mental illness that requires sensitive treatment.
Neither wearing a dress nor having dysphoria gives you the right to access sex-segregated spaces.
But anyhoo, tigs- if you haven’t really thought about it much, why don’t you read the threads properly. They are about the rights of women and girls.
Do you not care about Rachel? Is she s transphobic bitch who should sleep soundly next to a 6ft man with a penis, and share her bathroom and changing space with him happily? Why is Suzie more important?
No one gives a fuck about Rachel.
Why, tigs?
What is it about Rachel that renders her lesser? Not as deserving?
I mean, she’s a student. Obviously the criminals should just put up and shut up, amirite? They deserve to get banged up with rapists anyway. Can’t do the time (with a rapist cell-mate) shouldn’t do the crime, amirite?
I don’t get it tigs. Can you explain to me why my granny and teenage daughter need to sleep and get naked with men? I don’t understand your version of equality, tiggy? Can you help me out here?

Most likely Namechange

No woman, and certainly no feminist,would ever say "non trans woman".

Just another TRA looking for a perceived slight to run back to the club with. It's so disappointingly predictable.

And for the record - Suzie doesn’t require any surgery, or hormone treatment to be allocated a shared female bedroom with Rachel. She just has to tick the gender ‘female’ box. I then pop her in with Rachel, because they are obvs identical, see. It’s equaliteeeeeee.

do you have teenage daughters tigs?

I'm not saying a man can just say they are a woman and that be it, and that isn't how it works, at least not in the uk, and it isn't black and white, but most of the feminism posts on here are about trans issues, and really is that the biggest issue women face? This board seems a bit obsessed about it, and honestly the main emotion I get from reading them is hate and fear, I will use those words, trans gender people are at least as vulnerable if not more so than 'cis' women (if you prefer that term abouttoblow) and as feminists surely we should be supporting trans women as well, and what does make a woman? It is a good question sonicversusgyneaphobia, I certainly don't think it's whether or not you have a penis

Brava Mamaryllis! and also
But I'm guessing you won't get any sensible answers. I think we're on a biscuit thread here...

So what do you think it is that makes a woman?

I think you have a lot of reading you need to do on this subject, “Tiggy”. Again, there is a very good link posted upthread, and when you’ve read that you hopefully won’t be at quite such a disadvantage in terms of relative understanding when trying to discuss this with posters on here.

Women will do Tiggy.

I'm out. Go back to Twitter and tell them how horrible it is on Mumsnet.

P.S. please stop saying you're a feminist. It's really disingenuous and insulting to women and feminists.

Tiggy have you read anything about the proposals to bring in gender Self ID as law? Because self id will mean that any man can self declare as a woman JUST LIKE THAT. No hormones, no surgery, no dress. JUST LIKE THAT. Black and white. And you won't be able to question him or ask 'if he is a real trans'.

For toilets, changing rooms, women's swimming sessions, clubs, sports at work - on will we measure the gender (sex) pay gap if we don't know who is a really a man or a woman?

That is why we are so angry. You really ought to challenge your internalised misogyny that says all angry and upset women are being hysterical about nothing.

what does make a woman? It is a good question sonicversusgyneaphobia, I certainly don't think it's whether or not you have a penis
We women know what makes us women Tiggy82 but I'm really interested in what you think "makes" a woman....

but then if you don't think it matters who has a penis and who doesn't then you are not a feminist and not a supporter of women.

trans gender people are at least as vulnerable if not more so than 'cis' women

nypost.com/2018/09/07/transgender-woman-accused-of-sexually-assaulting-inmates/

Do you think this transwoman, who is a convicted sex offender and has admitted two assaults in women's prison (and is accused of two more) is MORE vulnerable than the women Karen was locked up with?

trans gender people are at least as vulnerable if not more so than 'cis' women

Transwomen are less at risk of harm than women. (Women, not cis, thank you.)

Transwomen are more likely to be a murderer than be murdered, for example.

Trans teens are not uniquely at risk of suicide.

Propaganda and falsehoods are very common in trans ideology.

There are a whole load of sources and stats I could give you to prove this, but I don't think I'll bother till you've at least read the excellent beginners thread that people were kind enough to link for you, up thread.

I never considered myself a 'Feminist' but acknowledge with tremendous gratitude the rights for equality that these wonderful people have fought hard for and gained for us over the years.

Reading the majority of threads and links that have been posted, I am puzzled that anyone would read words that don't appear in these posts. I've seen no indication of fear or hatred of transpeople, and I'm sure no one else has despite the goading posters that troll these boards.

I don't hate transpeople, I simply don't accept anyone can change sex, ever.
There is no such thing as a male/female brain, or being born in the wrong body.

This board has educated me and I'm eternally grateful to you all.

The male in MrsTerry's link is Karen White.

He raped 2 women including a woman who was disabled in a mixed psychiatric unit. He is a convicted paedophile

Who is the most vulnerable in this story?

and what does make a woman? It is a good question sonicversusgyneaphobia, I certainly don't think it's whether or not you have a penis

It comes as a shock to me still, that people can write stuff like this with a straight face.

Woman is not a feeling, it is the biological reality of a sexually dimorphic mammal species. Sexual dimorphism includes the presence of primary and secondary sexual characteristics. Female sexual characteristics include XX chromosomes, ovaries, uteruses and vaginas. A woman does not have a penis.

Women matter, both for a species and as individual human beings. Women’s rights are important. Woman is not a negligible and amorphous category to be manipulated and colonised by men, just because they feel like it.

The erasure of the category of woman by men who have “feelings”, or who’s understanding of womanhood goes no further than a superficial sense of “feminine” gender markers, is a serious issue for femininists.

Feminists are concerned with the rights of women and girls. When those rights are under threat, women will be concerned and will activate to protect themselves.

This is a feminist board. Ergo, issues of concern to feminists will be discussed.

There’s a serious answer, which your vacuous ramblings didn’t deserve.

A penguin said

scaremongering, scapegoating and straw man arguments. It’s tiresome

Penguins are not women.

a Tiggy said;

feminists surely we should be supporting trans women

go ahead tiggy.

the rest of us will not be joining you.

At what point does Phil Bunce magically transform by the way? At what point does he become magically able to use the women’s bogs? Is it when he pops his wig on? Rolls his fishnets seductively up his legs? Puts his garish frock on?
It sure as hell isnt when he chops his cock off. Or takes his hormones. Because he doesn’t. Nor does he take a pay cut or have a GRC. And yet gets a women in business award and gets to advise the girl guides on womanning and letting penises into sex segregated spaces. I’m sure he’s a lovely bloke. And all this without self-UD having become actual law. Amazing. And equality being your forte, tigs, is this the way forward? Us wims don’t need women’s bogs. We can change our moon cups and wash them in the communal sinks. Those of us who are squeamish about fetishists rummaging in the bins for used menstrual products will get used to it. Men should be able to do these things! Bloody sanitary towels aren’t a woman’s prerogative. Let the men share! Welcome Phil! Thanks to you and Tigs for showing us equality! (As long as it doesn’t affect your wages, natch)

Voting for women’s rights, and for women to win everything women stand for. Protecting women’s right has become a lot like “save the animals” or “save the earth” although more people support animals and the earth.

Oh no! Where's Tiggy gone??

Tiggy's posts made no sense. Was it just a massive 'why won't you be nicer to males' whinge.

I’m deeply disappointed in you tigs.
I was really looking forward to learning all about equality, and how feminism should be about breaking down the unfair rights women and girls have to safe spaces and fair competition.
I can always go on twitter if I want to free myself from my antiquated beliefs in biology I suppose.