What makes men angry with women?

[Italiangreyhound]

What makes men angry with women?

Is this article of any interest? Does it offer any incites?

goodmenproject.com/featured-content/hidden-reason-men-angry-women-over-nothing-chwm/

Thanks in advance if anyone reads it.

"Awesome argument"

It's a better argument then anything you've ever said here.

"No attempt to engage with the, what, entire 4 pages of women's thoughts, just copy and paste some posts about porn and "you're full of it!!""

I just came onto this thread and read through the first fives pages and then skipped to the last two pages sorry if I missed allot of stuff.

"You sound a little angry "

I do find people who have rivers of nonsense flowing from their mouths to be infuriating.

"Strangely, when they go looking for poeple who have downloaded illegal porn, they're all men.

It's really confusing to reconcile how 50% of people who enjoy viewing and are super keen on extreme porn on surveys by porn site looking at self reported sex, are never in evidence when the arrests happen."

As usual you never actually provide any evidence for a single claim you make at all and just continue to let the river of nonsense flow form your mouth. Also you don't actually consider the possibilities for why that may be so if its true, like not everyone who commits a crime gets arrested.

But as is also usual I can find evidence that disproves your claim that all people in possession of illegal porn are men.
www.jacksonville.com/news/20180227/multiple-child-porn-images-leads-to-jacksonville-womans-arrest www.thebatavian.com/howard-owens/pembroke-woman-53-arrested-child-pornography-charge/33723 www.northjersey.com/story/news/paterson-press/2017/04/19/paterson-woman-arrested-child-porn-charges/100671204/ www.wlbt.com/story/37508232/gulfport-woman-arrested-on-child-pornography-charge www.wjtv.com/news/state/ms-ag-s-office-columbus-woman-arrested-for-poss-of-child-porn/1197513682 www.wpri.com/news/local-news/blackstone-valley/pawtucket-woman-arrested-for-child-porn/1043999764 www.enewscourier.com/news/local_news/athens-woman-charged-with-child-porn-possession/article_cfaff644-0abf-11e8-81ed-7358adc23ade.html www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/23084895/woman-arrested-for-child-porn www.wtok.com/content/news/Laurel-woman-arrested-for-possessing-child-pornography-482942001.html
www.justice.gov/usao-nm/pr/filipino-woman-arrested-federal-child-pornography-charges atlantic.ctvnews.ca/weymouth-woman-arrested-on-child-pornography-charges-1.4046755 www.fox16.com/news/woman-arrested-for-child-porn_20180625223922/1263392985 5newsonline.com/2018/01/12/sebastian-county-woman-accused-of-distributing-child-pornography/ ps://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2010-08-26/thomaston-woman-arrested-child-porn-and-drug-chargeshtt
triblive.com/local/allegheny/11591021-74/child-pornography-office wwmt.com/news/local/police-19-year-old-woman-arrested-in-connection-with-possible-child-porn-ring www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2018/01/18/oakland-county-woman-accused-making-child-porn-movies-send-man/1044401001/ www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/08/wealthy-texas-woman-faces-child-porn-charges.html www.wwnytv.com/story/38374432/carthage-woman-gets-90-years-in-prison-in-child-porn-case www.newsandtribune.com/news/new-albany-woman-charged-with-child-molesting-pornography/article_dc339a58-48c0-11e8-873d-5bec53097adc.html www.seehafernews.com/2018/05/18/grand-chute-woman-arrested-for-creating-child-porn-with-her-children/ www.newson6.com/clip/7779819/tulsa-man-vinita-woman-arrested-for-child-pornography www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/fla-woman-25-arrested-child-porn-article-1.1225218 www.wbrz.com/news/man-woman-arrested-in-alleged-child-pornography-scheme/ www.komu.com/news/rocheport-woman-arrested-on-child-porn-possession-charge cyprus-mail.com/2018/08/31/woman-arrested-in-north-for-child-pornography/ www.cbs7.com/content/news/Woman-arrsted-on-child-pornography-charges-as-shes-babysitting-five-year-old-469269333.html thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1555857-bedford-mother-sobs-during-bail-hearing-on-sex-charges www.waff.com/story/20505582/woman-arrested-on-child-porn-charges/ www.richmond.com/news/virginia/roanoke-woman-admits-guilt-for-producing-child-pornography/article_7116b5c6-48d7-5e77-994d-2b05a9df8c06.html

"The idea that violent and degrading and illegal porn is driven by women is preposterous."

It is greatly unlikely that such porn is driven entirely by Women, I was pointing out that such porn is only popular with a minority of Men and is in fact more popular with Women then Men to disprove your claim that growing violent misogyny is behind it's proliferation.

"Look at all the people who have gone to prison recently for killing their parter during "rough sex" (hahaha) it's all blokes."

sigh Once again, www.thesun.co.uk/news/2808739/dad-stuff-entrails-stomach-wife-disembowled-sex-session/ www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/02/mother-19-stabbed-boyfriend-had-sexual-intercourse-dressed-clown/ www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/woman-boasted-she-killed-partner-during-sex-court-told-20180502-p4zczf.html www.deccanchronicle.com/lifestyle/viral-and-trending/150218/russian-woman-kills-boyfriend-in-sex-game-beheads-cuts-off-genitals.html

"This is a total derail isn't it.

Anyone who picks up one poster and attacks them and fails whatsoever to engage with any of the rest of the very very long thread, or indeed the questions posed in the OP, is a derailer."

I am engaging you because you are just so full of it your bursting at the seems, I would engage others but you are top priority.

"Prob best ignored TBH.
Not much point getting dragged into a convo with a person that thinks women are red hot keen on being throttled to death as a part of sex, are somehow driving the rape stats and causing gang rape, and are the ones who are interested in csa."

Nice lie there, it's just to bad for you that I'm right here to disprove it. First as I said previously in my post I was contesting your claim that violent porn is massively popular with men and driven by Misogyny, and I provided decisive proof by showing the percentage of Men interested in such activities and also showing that such things where more popular with women then men.

Secondly you like to claim allot, tell me just how exactly did I explicitly advocate all the things you just said? I provided evidence and reasoning to refute your claims and nothing else so how exactly did you surmise that those ideas are my position?

Though accusing me of saying that Women are interested in "csa"(I assume you mean child sexual abuse.), is really weird since I implied nothing of the sort in my original post. Though it is also funny since that is true to an extent as there are Women who are in fact interested in that, not all or even most but some and they probably do not outnumber Men when it comes to that but they exist. pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/08/15/woman-charged-raping-boy-posting-video-online/amp/ www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/mum-charged-raping-4-year-9771715

"The primary advocate for the legalisation of extreme porn in the UK is a woman.
A transwoman.
So. Whatever."

Keep up the nonsense it won't get you anywhere, firstly how exactly does that disprove the studies carried out in other countries? Its nigh on impossible that trans gendered people are in way skewing the stats, but I guess reality doesn't appeal to you at all.

Well reality evidently doesn’t appeal to you Totheend.
Perhaps read the entire thread before posting.

Just catching up....

PackingSoap

"It seems that something changed at the beginning of the 18th century vis a vis the notion that women were sexually rapacious. This makes sense when you look at earlier literature that features Moll Flanders, The Wife of Bath etc, and also puts the medieval monastic experience for men in a different light."

But that's just fiction. Men writing about randy women.

www.bartleby.com/essay/Moll-Flanders-Fact-or-Fiction-FKRGN2LKRZYA

"Moll Flanders: Fact or Fiction? Although Daniel Defoe endeavors to portray Moll Flanders as an autobiography and convince readers that the sordid affairs of Moll actually occurred, readers can find through the reading of his work that Moll Flanders is undoubtedly a completely fictional character."

"There's a lot to unpick and I may be utterly wrong, but you have to ask who benefits from settlement, and my feeling is that it is women."

I think settlement affects and benefits both sexes but maybe men do resent it somewhat, some men.

"Well reality evidently doesn’t appeal to you Totheend."

Trying to turn my correct assessment around back at me isn't going to work Rick because my assessment is true and your reverse is false.

"Perhaps read the entire thread before posting."

Maybe I'll read pages 6-11 if it is of importance to me, also if anyone is wondering I spent over an hour working on my previous post here on page 14 and numerous posts went up while I was working on it, so if your wondering why it doesn't address certain point it is because those points where not up when I started making my post.

AllDayBreakfast "When surveyed, I believe 50% of women purported to enjoy 'rough sex' and I believe that rape fantasies are more commonplace than one would've believed..." But a fantasy where you want some hunky dude to have sex with you is not really a 'rape' fantasy is it. because rape is about lack of consent, and in order to fantasize, one must be consenting in the fantasy, to the fantasy. It doesn't mean you want that in real life, necessarily, or you want a real rape scenario even in a fantasy.

I think men probably like to suggest women like to be raped so I disbelieve things that would suggest women are interested in this.

" I'm really surprised that a quarter of searches made by women are for violent porn!" How the fuck do they know that those searchers are women? They don't, if it is all on line I expect people might say absolutely anything and it might be utterly untrue.

NothingOnTellyAgain "Strangely, when they go looking for poeple who have downloaded illegal porn, they're all men." Yes, what a shocker that is, where did all those women go!

NothingOnTellyAgain "This is a total derail isn't it." Let's get back to the anger!!!

IfNotNowThenWhen1 "I dont agree that men are naturally more interested in sex" I would say there was overwhelming evidence to support the idea that they are.

"I think men do need to develop emotional bonds with other men, in the same way women do, but often they don't and are totally reliant on women for their wellbeing."

How have they not worked this one out?

"...now I'm cut up, beeped at, tailgated always by angry looking men. The contempt shown to older or "unfuckable" women is astonishing. Not just on the roads but at work, in life, generally." But I wonder if they do that to anyone, not just older women. Anyone.

"I do actually know plenty of men who don't fit this mould-who do cry, who are chuffed when their wives do well ( dp would love me to make a ton of money so he could go sailing all day!), and who don't express anger to women..." What is it about these nice decent men, what do they have the others do not? I wonder if we can work it out?

AllDayBreakfast "I'd imagine it's either something people search for out of comedic value, or it's high in the ranks due to its specificity" Or maybe they just hope young people will stumble across their vile dross early.

I agree that the porn thing is a bit of a derail, but it's a very interesting topic - more than happy to start another separate thread if people would prefer to discuss the OT on this thread...

It definitely doesn't fully explain the prevalence of male violence (which I think is significantly influenced by hormones as discussed on the other thread) but it certainly puts into question the frequent assumption that violent porn is driven by men and is living proof of their hatred towards women - i.e. if it's not men actually driving the violent porn industry but instead a large consumer base of women.

Interestingly, I've read before several times that 'being dominated' is far and away the most common female fantasy reported by women, so maybe this has some connection.

But a fantasy where you want some hunky dude to have sex with you is not really a 'rape' fantasy is it. because rape is about lack of consent, and in order to fantasize, one must be consenting in the fantasy, to the fantasy. It doesn't mean you want that in real life, necessarily, or you want a real rape scenarioevenin a fantasy.

This is exactly the point I made upthread in then same post you've quoted from. I said that presumably it was more about being 'ravished by a hunk' than the reality of a sweaty sex offender, or words to that effect.

Also, totally forgot to mention that there was a thread on here a while back (can't remember whether AIBU or fem chat) where loads of women chipped in to say that they watched porn (not necessarily violent content though).

I honestly think there is no reason not to believe that a lot of women watch it.

Perhaps violent porn serves as an 'outlet' for women and this is what men are lacking.

ADB "It definitely doesn't fully explain the prevalence of male violence (which I think is significantly influenced by hormones as discussed on the other thread"

Where is the evidence for hormones?

What other thread?

"if it's not men actually driving the violent porn industry but instead a large consumer base of women." You can say this until you are blue in the face, it is not true, in the slightest.

"I've read before several times that 'being dominated'". Maybe some women like it but to be honest I think it would be Bollocks, with a capital B. And shit. With a capital S.

AllDayBreakfast These women chipping to say they watched porn. How do you know they were women?

"I honestly think there is no reason not to believe that a lot of women watch it." I think there is every reason. Feeling vaguely nautious even discussing it. But the bottom line is I don't believe women like seeing other women being violently fucked and degraded. There is genuinely not one single thing you could say to convince me otherwise so please engage as you like but I think I'm done talking fairy tales about porn.

Why are men so angry with women.......

AllDayBreakfast women have a very wide range of outlets for our emotions etc and I think watching violent porn does not come into. Frankly feel sorry for any women who would feel the need to watch that shit. Now, back to the topic of the thread please, or start your own, not engaging on porn again.

Italiangreyhound

How does he existence and popularity of 50 shades of grey fit into your worldview?

Your not actually really refuting anything, you haven't shown that there is a large trend of Men deciding to mark their profiles as female at PornHub. If you examine this is actually at face a rather pointless exercise as Pornhiub isn't really a social network and your listed gender is probably effects what Pornhub will recommend you.

So at face there is no real incentive for anyone to lie about their sex and their is even some counter incentive to be honest.

The fact that they found that overall the porn viewing habits of profiles marked as female and profiles marked as male differ significantly is evidence that the profile's are generally correctly labelled as male or female..

The only way this makes sense is if you presume that their is a massive conspiracy of men who deliberately mislabel their profiles as females and search for certain types of porn outside of the usual male rates purely to throw off any examination of data by Pornhub itself to make it look like women watch certain types of porn.

That is plainly ridiculous.

At face there is no actual reason to doubt the validity of examining pornhub's user data and the only reason you do doubt it is because you don't want to believe that other women differ significantly from you in behavior in a way you disagree with.

Almost nothing men do surprises me these days.

I don't give a fuck if women want to read 50 shades of grey.

What is it about not talking about porn you don't get?

Please stop derailing this thread.

Back to anger....

Italiangreyhound

"I hate the fact that an examination of data turned up results that I don't like so I'm going to presume that there is a massive conspiracy. That is also,when you think about it, made up of prophets because how the fuck would anyone guess that the Pornhub would have examined it's user data and make it publicly available like it did beforehand."

This tangent was spawned by someone refuting another users nonsensical claim that was tied to the subject of the thread, so resolving this tangent is relevant to the subject of this thread.

It is also relevant as it shows your(And other users here) inability to accept well verified data that conflicts with your worldview and how you immediately jump to forming nonsensical conspiracy theories to justify your willing refusal of facts.

What tangent? Prophets?

This is literally gibberish

We don't want to talk about porn. We are not interested in your derailing tactics.

Please engage with the thread.

Why don't you start a new thread about porn and let people interested in that join you.

I'll be ignoring for now but wonder if I can ask for posts to be deleted if they are derailing?

Or shall I just start another thread elsewhere?

AllDayBreakfast you mentioned the beards and tattoos thing -my personal hypothesis is that these artificial signifiers of edginess and overt masculinity are cover ups for not having the traditional manly things ticked off: job, own place, girlfriend, maybe kids, car etc. Young people nowadays might not even have a driving licence. link
So yeah I basically think it's to cover insecurity. The tattooed 25 year old in the lumberjack shirt with muscles has "manorexia" and lives off protein shakes, he has a zero hours job, can't drive and occasionally has a FWB arrangement with a girl. All a bit of a flimsy life, especially if his dad had a house, a career, a wife and two kids by his age.

Not wanting to talk about porn specifically, but fantasies: the theory is that high powered men have submissive fantasies because it's one way to relinquish control, in a controlled environment. I guess the rape fantasy thing is similar - no responsibility for being sexual, no repression, it's not my fault, I was forced by Brad Pitt. Finally the weird and disturbing stuff - is it incels? Is it "put-upon" family men who don't have control, whose wives reject them? Do sexually active, handsome and popular young men fantasise about that stuff too? I'm not looking to excuse it, I think porn has been a red herring so far. It looks like a symptom of anger (frustration, impotence, powerlessness) after all, if the above holds water.
Then again, am I excusing women's violent fantasies? The Fifty Shades books were awful. BDSM people tell me they were bad from that point of view also, in terms of lack of respect for boundaries and romanticising abuse. However yet again the abuser is a handsome billionaire not Josef Fritzl. yuk!
This is the written word, not a studio full of damaged Valley girls, however.

I'm no further forward with the anger but I want to ask some questions: do you think men are angrier with everyone more than women are angry with everyone or is the difference than men are angrier with women specifically? Are they angrier with the women they interact with at work, home and social environments than with strangers? (Is it anger at women or just shit interpersonal skills?) Do the invisible and unfuckable women get treated worse for being unfuckable or just treated more like other men?
This woman went undercover as a man and wrote a book about it (which I haven't read) link It's an interesting article and a viewpoint that isn't often heard, but it could just as well be Stockholm Syndrome

Italiangreyhound

If you expect me to ignore the blatant falsehoods that is being spewed here then you've got another thing coming.

Well let me engage you point by point.

"We don't want to talk about porn. We are not interested in your derailing tactics."

Then why did NOTA bring it up in the first place?

"Please engage with the thread."

I am engaging with he thread.

"Why don't you start a new thread about porn and let people interested in that join you."

I didn't come here to discuss porn, I came here to engage in this thread.

Lets go back and reexamine your previous post.

"Almost nothing men do surprises me these days."

Oh yes the implausibility of the conspiracy is positively ridiculous, so your just going to say that nothing surprises you.

You have provided no evidence or actual reasoning for your claim whatsoever, you just refuse to accept evidence you don't like no matter how solid it is and you will concoct the most bizarre and far reaching conspiracies imaginable to dismiss it, and you won't provide a lick of evidence or reasoning for why this conspiracy exists. You just say "I don't think women do that" and "I think men would do that", and expect others to just sit down and accept that!

"I don't give a fuck if women want to read 50 shades of grey."

Well then, do you admit that Women can(keyword here) have violent sexual fantasies then?

"What is it about not talking about porn you don't get?"

Then why did NOTA bring it up in the first place?

"Please stop derailing this thread.'

I am not derailing I am addressing another's claim that relates to the topic of the thread.

But anyway further addressing the subject of the thread; if Men possess a special hatred for the opposite sex then why do they have significantly less in-group preference for their own gender compared to Women? rutgerssocialcognitionlab.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/9/7/13979590/rudmangoodwin2004jpsp.pdf
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group_favoritism#Automatic_bias_for_own_gender
"This research found that while both women and men have more favorable views of women, women's in-group biases were 4.5 times stronger[25] than those of men and only women (not men) showed cognitive balance among in-group bias, identity, and self-esteem, revealing that men lack a mechanism that bolsters automatic preference for their own gender.[25]"

Why are Men also more likely to express same sex aggression overall and compared to Women are less likely to engage in opposite sex aggression(In the study I am citing aggression is verbal and physical attacks and anykind of social interaction undertaken meant to undermine someone else.). pdfs.semanticscholar.org/54db/f01139a9f1974e70ac30fcb42dad2350744d.pdf

I'm not sure but growing up I had plenty of attention from WASPY types who found me exotic with my dark hair, eyes and olive skin. I was never, ever attracted to them though. I married my husband and we are still together over 20 years later - one of the types who was paying me compliments even after I was married was really bitchy that I married an Indian (he was German background) and was quite rude to my husband when he met him in the flesh (gave him the total cold shoulder). Just a couple of years after that he committed suicide even though he had a girlfriend. I rightly knew that these types would never, ever want to marry me (would spoil their 'racial purity' ideals - I am 98% European by the way) but somehow thought I was open to sleeping with them (was not) and then would become really horrid when I wouldn't respond.

if Men possess a special hatred for the opposite sex then why do they have significantly less in-group preference for their own gender compared to Women?
Men are more competitive not collaborative in the main.
Why are Men also more likely to express same sex aggression overall and compared to Women are less likely to engage in opposite sex aggression
Similar reasons, also the feeling of women as irrelevant. "Why engage with women to undermine them when they aren't even worth the hassle?" mentality. Also perhaps the ingrained "don't be mean to girls" might be at play. I wouldn't read too much into those two studies.
FWIW I also doubt Pornhub's stats are wrong. For all the in-group preference you mention, women are perfectly capable of "othering" a porn performer bring abused for cash. I should imagine the overall number of female users, or rather time spent logged in by female users, is lower than that of men, but use of internet porn in women isn't that rare, hence me mentioning females seeking help through nofap.

I'm not going to add anything else about porn, Todaloo, because that was (IMHO) a big ole rant and I'm not sure why you're so angry about other posters wanting to change the direction of conversation.

"because that was (IMHO) a big ole rant and I'm not sure why you're so angry about other posters wanting to change the direction of conversation."

Just to address this single point; I am just greatly irritated by the intense dishonesty about the subject displayed by some users here. I really don't care about porn its just the utter obfuscation of the truth some people on this thread attempted to do when solid information was presented that contradicted a point that was being made.

I didn't want to turn this from a civil discussion into a gunfight but I do agree that posters on here don't like it when statistics seemingly call their world view into question.

Fifty Shades was ridiculously popular among women (had forgotten about it tbh) and apparently 50% of women enjoy 'rough sex'. I really don't believe there is some mass conspiracy of men pretending to be women on pornhub to skew the stats. Even if the study was not 100% accurate I believe it still tells us a lot.

Where is the evidence for hormones?

What other thread?

My apologies, it was actually earlier in this thread. I think it may have been you I was replying to amongst others. Have repasted links below:

"When male robins enter the breeding season, their testosterone level rises. They become aggressive and amorous. Testosterone has remarkably similar effects on men."

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/200907/sex-violence-and-hormones?amp

"In non-human animals, the relationship between testosterone and aggression is well established."

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135917890000032X

"There is evidence that testosterone levels are higher in individuals with aggressive behavior, such as prisoners who have committed violent crimes."

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693622/

"We were able to show for the first time that increasing levels of testosterone within the normal physiological range can have a profound effect on brain circuits that are involved in threat-processing and human aggression"

www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-journals/testosterone-in-healthy-men-increases-their-brains-response-to-threat

"Inmates who had committed personal crimes of sex and violence had higher testosterone levels than inmates who had committed property crimes of burglary, theft, and drugs. Inmates with higher testosterone levels also violated more rules in prison, especially rules involving overt confrontation."

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/019188699400177T

Or shall I just start another thread elsewhere
We could do, or do this?

Men get very cross about women discussing politics. Everywhere.

www.theguardian.com/media/2018/sep/04/zero-shame-editor-defends-all-female-line-up-on-new-bbc-politics-show

Thanks OP.

Turph that Ned link is ittrrky amazing Thank you.

AllDayBreakfast does testosterone produce more anger or violence or do angry or violent people peodice5 more testosterone?

Todaloo I can see you are irritated but you won't force me to discuss this any further.