What makes men angry with women?

[Italiangreyhound]

What makes men angry with women?

Is this article of any interest? Does it offer any incites?

goodmenproject.com/featured-content/hidden-reason-men-angry-women-over-nothing-chwm/

Thanks in advance if anyone reads it.

people

Could I just point out that almost no one has agreed with the premise in the original article. That I agree with. And I am not irritated.

Through out the thread I have agreed with some ideas and some not so much, and I have said so, and no one to my knowledge has got cross.

Several posters have said I agree or I do not agree etc. That is the normal way of threads. No one need agree here, if they do not. No ones evidence is incontrovertible.

Yes I am seeing some anger on this thread coming from soms posters.

Which is interesting.

The picking out of one poster amongst many and going on and on at them with reams of mildly aggressive stuff ("spewing" etc there were more, really can't be bothered to re-read!).

This is a good example of the type of anger we are discussing, interestingly it's always when porn is mentioned that a klaxon goes off somewhere and loads of exciting new posters join

On this idea that women are the driving consuming force behind the porn industry and are way more interested in violent "porn" than men. And 50 shades.

Women consuming these types of porn (we're talking het porn here I assume) will generally be relating to the person on the receiving end (usually the woman - mainstream het porn features women being sexually dominated and often debased by a man or men) while men will generally be relating to the person administering the dominaiton / humiliation.

I personally think the idea that it's women driving the worldwide porn industry is nuts (just porn or are we the consumers for all types of "sex work") but I agree it's for another thread that I will happily join if someone starts it.

But to say that "women are as into, if not more into violent porn than men" while entirely overlooking the fact that said porn in standard format features men abusing women, is overlooking something pretty massive -
Especially when given that in real life, rape and sexual abuse are carried out overwhelmingly by men (98% of sex offenders in prison are male I believe) while women are, what? Is the idea that we WANT to be raped, abused, strangled etc? Well I'm sure a lot of violent angry men like to tell themselves that, and there we are back at square 1.

It's funny that something men get VERY angry about is when women say that they are dubious about porn / prostitution / etc, lots of men do react angrily to even the suggestion of a discussion about whether it would be better for society if men were not able to access these things.

That's the sexual entitlement thing I suppose.

In the extreme you get guys like the ones in Haiti working for Oxfam and while they are out there, buying women (and girls - not proven - nor unproven -but let's be realistic) and literally being unabel to understad why anyone has a problem with that. Massive sexual entitlement.

So does all the anger come back to sex?

Imho it’s the entitlement rather than the sex because the anger comes out in lots of ways and it seems linked to the entitlement of men to women’s physical, emotional, sexual etc labour. It’s not reciprocal and it’s not going to be because it’s based on entitlement and the idea that men know best so if you don’t comply they get angry because they expect compliance. Much like someone might kick the washing machine if it starts spewing bubbles.

Yes that is a good analogy GoldenWonderwall

The space thing is important -
Women can make men angry just by being there

Men are angry with women when women make them feel uncomfortable. Many men never get over the deeply held unconscious belief that women are ego props, there exclusively to make them feel better about themselves.

I wish I could find that article an ex mra wrote about what he thinks is driving the anger so many men have against women.

The props thing - he had a bit about how all the media shows all sorts of men - fat men thin men handsome men ugly men short men tall men cowardly men strong men geeky men sporty men etc and in the stories the main man - whatever sort - is the hero, saves the day, gets a beautiful woman.

He said that when men realise that actually they aren't the centre of the story, and no they won't be given a beautiful woman, massive resentment sets in.

I'll have another look, I tried the other day though and couldn't find it so not too hopeful.

I'm not convinced that there is one simple explanation to this.

It's probably true that there are evolutionary reasons why men are more aggressive than women, but I suspect that it's also true that historically societies have tended to cultivate male aggression and suppress male empathy because they needed men to be willing to go off and fight for them if necessary.

It also seems to be generally true that throughout history oppressor classes tend to end up holding oppressed classes in contempt, so some aspects of misogyny may be part of a more general "victim blaming" mentality that is common throughout humanity.

Google - this came up not read it before.
Good example of men getting angry when the terrible behaviour of other men is reported here

This is another interesting phenomenon.
Why do so many men get angry, when women disclose that a different anonymous man, has treated them badly?

Also when I google "why are men angry with women"

I'd say 9/10 of the first page hits are about angry women. And why women are angry with men.

That's interesting.

A lot of reversal in male rage generally. They get angry with us, for the things that apply to them, and they project, I have noticed.

"does testosterone produce more anger or violence or do angry or violent people produce more testosterone?"

Well, they're not mutually exclusive. If testosterone produces anger, then people who produce more testosterone will be more angry.

Anecdotally, when I was prescribed testosterone (initially at far too high a level) I found myself becoming much more aggressive - e.g. when I'd get cut up in traffic etc.

Have pasted below a few relevant links found online, some of which explain in greater detail the Pornhub data (e.g. the popularity within the 18-24yo category) and some others which are also relevant (the meta analysis of 20 previous studies which show that somewhere between a third and a half of the many women involved had rape fantasies).

"Porn featuring violence against women is also extremely popular among women. It is far more popular among women than men. I hate saying that because misogynists seem to love this fact. Fantasy life isn't always politically correct."

"The rate at which women watch violent porn is roughly the same in every part of the world. It isn’t correlated with how women are treated."

www.vox.com/platform/amp/conversations/2017/6/27/15873072/google-porn-addiction-america-everybody-lies

"I’m a happy woman, so why do I fantasise about sex abuse?"

amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/mar/05/i-am-a-happy-woman-so-why-do-i-fantasise-about-sex-abuse-mariella-frostrup

"A recent analysis of 20 studies over the last 30 years indicates that between 31% and 57% of women have rape fantasies, and these fantasies are frequent or preferred in 9% to 17% of women."

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psyched/200805/why-do-women-have-erotic-rape-fantasies?amp

Rebecca Reid: "So how are we still expressing surprise at data which suggests that women, just like men enjoy dark porn."

metro.co.uk/2017/05/02/its-time-to-stop-policing-what-women-wank-about-6611379/amp/

"A massive load of search data collected over the years, show how many females were searching for ultra-violent porn. They used keywords such as “rape”, “brutal gangbang crying”, “forced sex”, “painful oral sex” among others."

stripclubwien.com/stripclub-news/studies-show-women-watch-violent-porn-men/

FWIW, I'm not posting this as a "gotcha'.

I think it's an interesting and multi layered topic. I think people should watch whatever they want really, but would probs feel uncomfortable with people watching porn that degrades women if it transpires that most women were offended. However, it seems that this is actually far from the reality of the situation.

I support their right to watch it (even if it doesn't appeal to me) but why it worth looking at is simply because its existence has been blamed on men up until now with lots of stern admonishment dished out (now seemingly unfairly!).

By "looking at" I mean discussing, not literally watching it...

I think people should watch whatever they want really
Nope. There are limits. If we accept that pornography should be legal, and the production of (mainly) visual material to facilitate masturbation is a worthwhile business endeavour, there still needs to be some checks and balances on that business as any other.
Producing snuff porn, because there is a market for it, is still wrong. So no, people shouldn't watch what they want, just as they can't buy what they want. Try to buy a machine gun and a 12 year old slave on the dark web and see what law enforcement has to say about it.
Libertarianism taken to ancap extremes is dangerous, and too many of us acquiesce to stuff that is harmful in the interest of "fairness" or "live and let live". It's indicative of wider problems of over-acceptance and relativism.

Anger's natural. There is, however, a social hierarchy on who is allowed to act it out in the west. They act it out through violence, intimidation, silencing, pornography and the other little weapons in their arsenal.

Guess who gets to act it out and guess who has to manage and repress it?

I read that article, and thanks for posting OP. He is angry because he heard his mother laughing, in private with her friends, about his father?

Actually, I agree that some things are off limit, but anything within the consensual realm is ok in my eyes (even role plays so long as there is mutual consent).

However, I'm a firm believer that evidence should be prioritised over assumption - e.g. "It's ridiculous to think that women might like violent porn!" etc. Is it really that unbelievable?

If we weren't open to facts and evidence then people might still believe women were 'weak spirited' and with inferior brains to men - or any of the other 18th century guff.

We are off porn aren't we?

As already discussed, women who fantasis about being raped are not fantasising about being raped as it's their fantasy so they can control what is going on.

I would also say that women fantasising about being victims of male sexual violence is very different to men fantasising about perpetrating sexual violence.

In reality the vast majority of sexual violence is carried out by men, against women and girls and to a lesser extent men and boys.

The two things are not equal. There is no gotcha.

I really want to move away from porn though I have a lot to say but this thread is about male anger at women. Porn is more of a symptom.

AllDayBreakfast disagee.

People can be persuaded to consent to all sorts of things if there is enough money / or enough of a threat involved.

Plenty of famous porn actresses have said afterwards that what was on film was not really consensual >> no-one seems to care really.

One banned category in the UK is that which is likely to cause permanent injury - I'm not looking it up now.I don't think that should be legal.

However, I'm a firm believer that evidence should be prioritised over assumption
Agreed, in all cases
People can be persuaded to consent to all sorts of things if there is enough money or enough of a threat involved.
Agreed, in all cases.
BUT wrt the latter point, especially as it pertains to prostitution, the MRA counter argument is that financial or physical coercion isn't the compelling factor and arguing that it is means the individual has a lack of agency. Likewise staying in abusive relationships. The MRAs can't identify with someone who chooses to stay in a dangerous situation (because they have a lifetime worth of defending their own boundaries and/or having them defended for them) so argue it shows women are weak-willed and should be led.
Just one to watch out for, I see it all the time.

NothingOnTellyAgain

"So does all the anger come back to sex?"

It's my theory it is the other way round. The anger leads to sex. To domination etc. But I am still not sure we have hit the nail on the head of why there is so much anger in the first place.

"Well, they're not mutually exclusive. If testosterone produces anger, then people who produce more testosterone will be more angry."

I meant chicken and egg, which came first.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693622/

"What Dabbs didn't address was whether this correlation was the cause or an effect of the environment these men found themselves in. Which is to say, are high-testosterone males more likely to become violent criminals, or does being a violent criminal raise a man's level of testosterone?

No one really knows the answer, but a growing body of evidence suggests that testosterone is as much the result of violence as its cause."

and

"Arguably, the weak correlation between testosterone and violence gives us reason to be optimistic about the human race: Whereas other animals battle over mates as a direct result of their seasonal fluctuations in testosterone and other hormones, humans have discovered other ways to establish pecking orders. Which isn't to say that we can't rapidly adapt to the modern-day manifestations of our violent past: McAndrews's work demonstrated that one surefire way to raise a man's testosterone level is to allow him to handle a gun."

Sorry link was missing... www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-testosterone-alone-doesnt-cause-violence/