What makes men angry with women?

[Italiangreyhound]

What makes men angry with women?

Is this article of any interest? Does it offer any incites?

goodmenproject.com/featured-content/hidden-reason-men-angry-women-over-nothing-chwm/

Thanks in advance if anyone reads it.

The stories men tell one another about themselves are not realized in the real world and instead of faulting the man made myths they choose to believe they are being cheated of their due instead of realizing that men lied generation after generation.

Turph

I wasn't saying there weren't downsides, I am saying that most Men probably consider them excusable(Though they may not grasp the full scope.) since evidently despite those downsides society lived on and continued to grow.

And so they probably think that the current system is probably the best since so far its worked well enough and its better to go with what is proven to work even if it has downsides then something new that promises allot but so far has no actual large scale and long term proof of concept.

I think a class of men do live in conscious fear that they will be done to as they have done.

Brilliant posts, one and all.

Must get to bed.

I wonder if men are suffering a more extreme version of what women are going through generally. The rug has been pulled out and anything goes but actually, no it doesn't, but the old 'rules' don't apply so everyone is a bit mixed up.

No, that doesn't answer millennium of anger, if that is what it has been, but I think some certainties are going.

What seems to 'save' people is having a passion, and a skill. People who are great athletes, musicians etc have ways of feeding back into their self esteem.

I caught some of this on Radio 4 tonight, and I must admit it made me feel that the way society is being 'run' is very grim actually.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bgq6dy

If you listen to this and keep wondering why she is talking about Argentines, she is saying Igenteens (I-gen-teens!)

PudgyFriend

"I thought it was pretty obvious that I was saying that more Men do that "(Inherently that is, its probably expressed more often towards men as more Men end up on the news for this kind of stuff.)", so I don't know why you went on that tangent."

Sorry I was a bit confused by what you meant, but now I see what you meant.

If you think other people think how you think and you can’t imagine that other people think differently then you will assume they do what you do in situations.

For example, these incel men that are oh so angry with the world because they are ugly and can’t get a girlfriend- well, irl, I see plenty of non conventionally attractive men in happy relationships because many women don’t put looks as their dealbreaker with regards potential partners. However many women would look for a partner who is kind, caring, good sense of humour, good with animals and children, intelligent, competent at running a home, clean etc which are nearly all skills and traits that can be developed and worked at but if you can’t even bear for a second to put yourself into someone else’s shoes then you’ll never see that. You’ll just look in the mirror and blame your wonky nose and get angry. Nothing changes.

Likewise if you’re looking for a woman who is beautiful, happy to stfu whilst doing all the things you want to do in life and never asks you for any kind of support then your going to be waiting a long time, even if she exists in films and tv shows.

Anecdotally, the men I know who are happiest are the ones that treat women as full human beings. The ones that make the sexist jokes, the ones that expect their wives to do it all, the ones that can’t/won’t get a girlfriend as they’re holding out for Prof. Supermodel or waiting for a coupled up woman to see the light etc all seem incredibly sad. Conversely the men I know that get stuck in to nappy changing, spending time with their families and partners and breaking out of stereotypes seem much happier.

Good points.

I think an important distinction to make is that many of the seeming 'worst offenders' in terms of spouting misogynistic guff (e.g. incels, MRA, PUA) are actually just nerds sitting on their computers on their bedrooms - likely to be young, or if not going likely to be social outcasts. These guys aren't likely to be in relationships and I don't think they're the ones responsible for violence by and large.

Anecdotally, the one guy I've ever known who was violent to women (had hit at least four of his exes, who I knew from living in a smallish town) was seemingly charming and was popular. Good looking guy and always had a girlfriend within weeks of splitting with the previous. He was a successful small business owner and I would predict high testosterone as very competitive and a 'go getter' - high test has been observed in the majority of CEOs/entrepreneurs.

In this guy's case, I believe he would generally act like a dick (staying out, flirting with other women) but would not react well when confronted by a woman who wouldn't back down.

I genuinely believe that testosterone is at least a part of the puzzle, likely exacerbated by the paradigm change whereby 'masculine' men are no longer the leaders and are often surpassed in power by techie types and businessmen - this has likely always been partly the case as money is power, but even a few decades ago the male icon was much more 'manly' and the Jonny Depps and Leonardo Dicaprios of this world would've been seen as a bit soft and 'pretty'.

I think a comparison between high levels of test and dangerous dog varieties can perhaps be made. Not all pit bulls are dangerous with the right socialisation, but in the right situation the potential for violence is there. But as said before, test alone does not always predict violence - most CEOs have high test levels and are certainly unlikely to be physically violent, although likely to be very competitive (perhaps the key is how this energy is directed).

Ceos often have high scores for dark triad traits

I don’t think anger and violence are synonymous. Anger is an emotion and violence is an action. Violence towards women is one of the ways men show anger towards women but there are plenty of other ways they do too.

A simple solution to the it’s mainly down to testosterone argument would be to medicate men. I think a better solution is more feminism. Break down stereotypes and social straight jackets. Encourage men to not feel they have to show no emotion and be a zero hours labourer to be a real man etc etc. But men have to want to do that. They perhaps have to see that real happiness lies in oneself and not in the external trappings of what’s considered to be a successful man. Donald Trump has it all on paper, but he doesn’t strike me as a particularly happy or fulfilled person. It’s a black hole of never enough expecting the world to meet your every whim imho.

I think part of the issue is that men (and probably women too) exist in a duality where the personas they project to other men are different to those they project to women. There are undoubtedly role models that appeal to both, but the 'hard man' icon is one that only really seems to appeal to men (and limited numbers of women).

Just catching up - fantastic posts this thread is wonderful

"The stories men tell one another about themselves are not realized in the real world and instead of faulting the man made myths they choose to believe they are being cheated of their due instead of realizing that men lied generation after generation."

And not just the lies they tell each other
They erase female contibutions from historical texts or don't mention them in the first place
(No women have ever "done" science ever, nor made any discoveries or inventions etc, I also read on a thread about historical religious texts ?bible that when it was translated at some stage the women's names in there got changed to male, also war women's contributions to offficial efforts are rarely mentioned, the massive suffering of women in war situations has only just started to be recognised and is rarely commemorated

There is and has been a masculine effort presumably not co-ordinated but nevertheless pretty thorough >> to minimise, reduce, hide, forget, about achievemennts that women have made in "their" fields.

that's a bit shitty of them isn't it. But the story that "these are men things" is very very important.

I have said on threads before that the stories that men tell each other and everyone about what men are like are generally completely inaccurate and often reversals eg men are rational and logical and women are overly emotional. Really? What about all that violence and murdering and stuff then? etc

Reversals - so many. Men often accuse women of being extremely manipulative. In fact the largest number of manipulative people, the most manipulative poeple have been men. Lots of examples of this. Obviously lots of women are manipulative but we don't go around saying "Oh men they're so manipulative it's a male sex characteristic" IYSWIM. their stories about what women are like are nearly as important to them as their stories about what men are like.

Are men more attached to gender than women? Being at the top of the hierarchy >> maybe? Probably? certainly people who deviate make them much more angry than women seem to get about it.

A story that men are fond of is that attractive women are stupid.

That is one they are very attached to.

Why? Is a woman who is both good looking and clever just too threatening? Why?

The stories thing is fascinating thank you for bringing it up!

GoldenWonderwall agree about happy men being the ones who are stuck in with their families

They are liked and loved. They have their place in the world. They will have people who visit when they are old. They will see their grandkids etc

If men want these connections they can have them it's not tricky. Just don't be a twat, and spend time with people you care about. And loads do have this. Just, not in the "stories". They are not about family.

The men I know who show no anger towards women invariably don't only show an absence of anger they show genuine warmth, friendship and support. It seems to be that it is in the free, non sexual displays of kindness in non-romantic relationships with women that men learn to be fully human. This feeling is so positive and addictive that they cannot and will not give it up and anger or resentment can never compete

Diffident I used to think that platonic relationships between men and women were possible and have always had a lot of male friends

One by one over the years they all tried to get in my knickers so I had a rethink. I think it's not that usual.

Also many men read women being normal and friendly as "wow I am gagging to jump on your cock" IME ie not actual friends just acquaintances, randoms etc

next theory

the vast majority of men prefer the company of men, deep down (or not so deep down!)
now bloody women are everywhere
makes you angry that.

Nothing. I acknowledge, and feel slightly sad at your experiences with male friends. I don't think this is universal although it may be widespread. I remain hopeful that we are at peak male anger right now and men will in future learn to let go of feelings that damage themselves and others.

NothingOnTellyAgain "Also many men read women being normal and friendly as "wow I am gagging to jump on your cock" IME ie not actual friends just acquaintances, randoms etc."

I sometimes wish men knew how little some of us women think about sex!

But i also think not all men are as obsessed with it as some men would have us believe! Male friends have not tried to get in my knickers, so I think it is not always the case.

I do also remain hopeful.

I would say the reverse can also be true - speaking to a woman out of friendliness and it being misconstrued as 'an advance.' My barber asked me out for a drink a while back and seemed a bit offended when I said I had a partner. As far as I was concerned we were just having a laugh. However, other women I've tried to be polite/friendly to have practically eyerolled at me and I'm not some overly familiar or sleazy guy, just friendly - I have quite a number of female friends.

Well that would be nice!

It did make me sad TBH because there's that awful realisation that while you have been thinking all the time of them as a friend, they've not been looking at you that way - it makes you question whether they actually liked you at all or were jollying you along as they wanted to get in your knickers etc.

It happened so many times that I totally revised my opinion!

Now I'm older and when I think about the men at work, DH and his mates etc, I think I can tell quite a lot (may be deluding myself!) when men see you as "person" and when they see you as "woman" first and then person. My conclusion is that very few men see women as people first - they see them as woman first and that affects how they relate to them (us). And that most (?) are more comfy with men. I honestly think that most men would rather just work with other men for eg with maybe a few attractive women dotted around in support type roles - organising things like mum and looking nice while doing it.

This is entirely my view based in my experience at the ripe old age of mid forties

took ages to press post - that was in reply to diffident!

the vast majority of men prefer the company of men, deep down (or not so deep down!)
now bloody women are everywhere
makes you angry that.

Right! If it's a man's world what are all these women doing going around acting like people?
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I agree that some people are simply charming flirts, but it is hard to recognize them unless you see them flirting with others as well so it is no surprise that they appear to be "coming on".