How many men in Saudi Arabia wish to be women?

[RedFin]

I have NC but not for this post, I NC every so often and just happen to have done so earlier today.

It just crossed my mind to wonder how many men in more repressive countries (repressive of females that is) harbour the same desire to be female as those in Westernised countries?

I wonder if being a female seems as appealing when it means not showing your face in public, being a man's possession/responsibility, having no job, not being allowed to talk to other men, not being allowed to drive etc.

I do not know very much about trans issues (bedsides what I read on MN and then research as a result) , nor do I know very much about Saudi Arabia, so I am happy to be enlightened if I'm mistaken anywhere.

I'm not trying to be goady either, I'm just wondering about how men want to be women in a more global context

It’s very hard to be openly homosexual in many parts of the Arab world. Some countries push people into transition (Iran) and in some countries, homosexuality and even just cross-dressing (Saudi Arabia) can be punished by death.

So I can’t imagine being LGBT of any kind is appealing, in that context.

Because they want to have sex with men, without being killed for it.

There are virtually no cases of men who want to be women, who are attracted to women in the M.E. and Arab world.

Also the cases of men committing suicide because they can't be accepted as female are non existent too.

Arab world. Some countries push people into transition (Iran)

A pedantic poster writes: Iran is not an Arab country.

I think though, it’s an interesting point.
Where women are seen as subservient and/or downtrodden a bit by men, is it still appealing to would-be trans people. I’d find it interesting if many men wanted to be women in some places. Would the urges feel the same.

This is a question that really interests me. I think it's important that we look at Gender dysphoria/ wanting to transition in a global context if we're going to have a hope of understanding or resolving anything

OP I see the thinking behind this post, but as others have pointed out this kind of analysis is useless. There are too many other factors (I.E. fear of execution/ostracisation for coming out as trans, or alternatively fear of execution/ostacisation for not transitioning if you’re gay) to accurately assess the numbers of trans people in certain countries.

Firstly, trans women are not men who want to be women, we are women - that's why we transition.

Secondly, being trans is a medical condition which does not recognise political, cultural or geographical borders. That's why there are trans women in Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Russia and Nigeria, just as there are in Sweden, UK, France and Australia etc etc. You might as well ask whether people decide not to have heart disease in Zimbabwe given the poor levels of medical care.

Thirdly, you didn't ask if there are also more trans men in those countries than elsewhere given the advantages of being male. If not, why not?

Sure, I would assume that in a culture where you risk death for going against the grain, statistical info is going to be harder to find.

But maybe there are some countries that are a middle ground?

Even in the UK, I'm interested in how Gender dysphoria/wanting to transition occurs across cultural backgrounds and socioeconomic status.

Heart disease and cancer also vary across races and cultures.

Thirdly, you didn't ask if there are also more trans men in those countries than elsewhere given the advantages of being male. If not, why not?

I suspect they would face the same fate as the trans women. Not a good end.

Yes I was going to say. Gay men. It’s seen as a cure for the gay

we are women

In what way?

Firstly, trans women are not men who want to be women, we are women - that's why we transition

I'm sorry, but no. To be a woman means you were born with XX chromosomes and have experienced long life oppression for being born with XX chromosomes. You may wish to present yourself as a woman, but your experiences will never be the same as ours, you have been socialised in early life as a man. I accept you as a trans woman and respect your right to enter female spaces if you no longer have male genitalia but do not sit there and tell me you are a woman.

Probably the same percentage as anywhere else. But unfortunately they would probably get beheaded if they expressed their desire.

In some countries and some cultures the tradition is for the male family members to kill children who are gender non conforming if beating them into submission fails. Whether that includes children who wish to transition is unknown.

I suspect they would face the same fate as the trans women. Not a good end

Yeah exactly. OP I’m sure you didn’t intend this, but I find this discussion quite distasteful. We’re talking about a context where being LGBT can literally get you murdered by the state. It’s not a fun thought experiment for the LGBT people who live that reality every day, and it shouldn’t be for us.

trans women are not men who want to be women, we are women
No matter how many times I hear this comment reiterated I still can't believe it's ostentatiousness.

‘We are women’
No you are not.

I've done some work in humanitarian relief services during the height of the Mediterranean refugee crisis. There were quite a few gay men of ME and South Asian origin among the arrivals. I did see a couple of gender-ambiguous individuals, too - but extremely few.

I don't want to do anyone wrong, so I really don't know if these people were trans or just feminine gay men or something else altogether. To my eye, they read as clearly male (trousers, short hair, ...) but with a preference for feminine items (e.g. tops, bras). Among tens of thousands of people I saw during that time, I came across probably less than 10 of these people. Not sure if relevant, but they all seemed to be of South Asian origin where, I believe, some cultures have some form of a 'third gender' concept.

Needless to say, I'm not a social worker or in anything of the sort (my work there was in assisting with technical infrastructure, though I dis end up getting involved in emergency relief due to staff shortages). I also don't speak any of the languages the people there commonly spoke. So who exactly those individuals are, I'd not be in a position to confirm. To me, they were desperate people in need of help along with tens of thousands of others.

"To be a woman means you were born with XX chromosomes and have experienced long life oppression for being born with XX chromosomes. You may wish to present yourself as a woman, but your experiences will never be the same as ours"

If being a woman is down to the oppression you experience, then the women of the countries being discussed here can claim that you are not a woman because you haven't experienced the degree of oppression they have for being female.

As for chromosomes - I can't believe you people still think it's all just about XX and XY:

genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask352

Surely you should be wondering if women would want to transition, being as men are superior. Especially If you’re trying to imply that men in western countries only transition to gain some kind of benefit from being a woman.

I think your point proves only how difficult it is to be yourself in some countries.

As for chromosomes - I can't believe you people still think it's all just about XX and XY:

Oh come on you are plucking at straws here, XXY and XXX and XYY are very rare genetic abnormalities.