How many men in Saudi Arabia wish to be women?

[RedFin]

I have NC but not for this post, I NC every so often and just happen to have done so earlier today.

It just crossed my mind to wonder how many men in more repressive countries (repressive of females that is) harbour the same desire to be female as those in Westernised countries?

I wonder if being a female seems as appealing when it means not showing your face in public, being a man's possession/responsibility, having no job, not being allowed to talk to other men, not being allowed to drive etc.

I do not know very much about trans issues (bedsides what I read on MN and then research as a result) , nor do I know very much about Saudi Arabia, so I am happy to be enlightened if I'm mistaken anywhere.

I'm not trying to be goady either, I'm just wondering about how men want to be women in a more global context

Firstly, trans women are not men who want to be women, we are women - that's why we transition
Transition from what?

Firstly, trans women are not men who want to be women, we are women - that's why we transition.

If [generic] you were women, [generic] you wouldn't need to transition. I am female and don't need to transition to become a woman.

Transition from what?

Good question.

Because we have female identities.

There is no such thing.

It is also social and I fail to understand why your biology should impact on how society sees you.

That is possibly the most ignorant comment I have ever read on MN.

Wakame, you are so disingenuous. Everyone knows what a woman is fgs, even you, otherwise you wouldn't own the prefix 'trans'.

A woman is of the sex class that produces eggs. If a person is not of that class then they are not a woman.

Even women who don't have fully working, or all sexual organs are still 'of the class' women.

Men who want to take on the 'woman' stereotype are free to do so, and I applaud them for that, but calling themselves women is insulting to women.

They aren't - they have different shaped genitals.

No. They have different genitals. Girls do not have penises.

otherwise you wouldn't own the prefix 'trans'.

Or need to transition.

Wakame nature is really really horribly messy. We don't understand how much so in the west because we've eradicated a lot of diseases and made so many advances in how we treat certain conditions. A lot of what can go wrong is kept out of sight on hospital wards too.

But you don't have to look far to see how badly wrong things can go. A very brief google will show you some distressing abnormalities of children born in 3rd world countries, who aren't swept away to get help. I just saw a baby born with a second head which had no torso, children with the most horrendous skin conditions and some with deformed limbs on a quick search.... I could go on.

I am not actially a biologist but even I know that classification of things like mammals is about the norm. It's about finding order in a complex world. Someone pointed out on another thread that that's where we get the term 'medical disorder.' DISorder. Goes against the natural order of things. The clue is in the name.

In classifying women, it isn't a threat that there are intersex people. Having a Disorder of Sexual Development means you can't easily be contained by a category. You have something wrong with you. Your existence doesn't change the entire category. No classification system can include every anomaly going otherwise a woman could only be defined as a blob of cells with 1 million potential biological variations.

Why does this matter? Well let's say you're a doctor who needs to give a dosage of a potentially toxic medication to a woman. In testing it to make sure it won't kill your patient, do you really honestly go to a 6 foot 5 individual with a penis who feels female and test it on them? And then give it to a 4 foot 10, frail 80 year person with a vagina, confident you know how she will respond?

How we classify people matters. Science matters. Sex matters.

If you as a trans person received a blood transfusion from someone who had given birth, it would be dangerous for you. It could kill you.

Here here gendercritter.

"Apart from the Japanese seaweed type derailing"

What has my being Japanese got to do with anything? I think you'll find my English is fluent.

Fantastic gendercritter

Oops, sorry, hear hear I should have said for those cringing at my grammatical faux pas

If you as a trans person received a blood transfusion from someone who had given birth, it would be dangerous for you. It could kill you.

Exactly. There are scenarios where biological sex is very important indeed. And you know this wakame because if you were in such a scenario and needed to receive blood and the option was between blood from a woman who has previously given birth and blood from a transwoman, whose would you pick and why?

Remember you believe transwomen are women, don’t you? So you’d be happy to have the blood transfusion from either?

As I asked earlier - as a woman, am I trans then? Surely I am, if trans are women, all women are trans?

If transwomen = women then women = transwomen. I am not trans.

Imagine a scenario, say 200 years in the future, when archaeologist dig up graves. Do you really think that they are going to be fooled into thinking that the skeletons of men are actually the skeletons of women, @wakame?

" if you were in such a scenario and needed to receive blood and the option was between blood from a woman who has previously given birth and blood from a transwoman, whose would you pick and why? "

Let me answer that with a question. Would you choose to receive a blood transfusion from a woman with a compatible blood type to you, or an incompatible blood type?

Me too.

Imagine that - you can be trans and still make pragmatic decisions - you know, like being a trans man and still having cervical smears etc.

Honestly, you must think we are completely stupid!

I identify as trans. It's my right to do so, surely?

As I asked earlier - as a woman, am I trans then? Surely I am, if trans are women, all women are trans?

How about if you're a woman but don't identify as such?

To clarify: I don't "identify" as male or agender or queer or anything else. I "identify" as me.

No, women and trans women are the same. So I am a transwoman.

Honestly, you must think we are completely stupid!

If I told you what I think I would be banned from MN. However, I am trying to follow MN talk guidelines, as vague and confusing as they are to me.

It was a reference to your user name and the way you’ve attempted to take the thread onto discussing intersex and chromosomal abormalities, rather than the interesting topic of whether transgender as a phenomenon is equally prevalent in all societies across the world. Or, you know, try to suggest that I was having a go at your being Japanese. For all I know you ID as a dark green sea vegetable often used to garnish ramen, and I don’t care.

"women and trans women are the same. So I am a transwoman."

That's like saying some women are tall, so all women are tall. It's not a very good argument.

So you agree I am a transwoman then wakame?