How many men in Saudi Arabia wish to be women?

[RedFin]

I have NC but not for this post, I NC every so often and just happen to have done so earlier today.

It just crossed my mind to wonder how many men in more repressive countries (repressive of females that is) harbour the same desire to be female as those in Westernised countries?

I wonder if being a female seems as appealing when it means not showing your face in public, being a man's possession/responsibility, having no job, not being allowed to talk to other men, not being allowed to drive etc.

I do not know very much about trans issues (bedsides what I read on MN and then research as a result) , nor do I know very much about Saudi Arabia, so I am happy to be enlightened if I'm mistaken anywhere.

I'm not trying to be goady either, I'm just wondering about how men want to be women in a more global context

It's an interesting question, but I think the answers given are basically a pooling of ignorance. The real answer is: we don't know.

I agree that you can't answer the ops question because there is so much persecution in the ME & Arab country's for LGBT people. However I think looking at transitioning worldwide could be useful in understanding it better and people's reasons tor doing it.

Apparently in Thai Land they have high rates of male to female transition because of the financial benefits." Lady boys" can make more money through sex work than actual woman so impoverished families will encourage feminine sons to transition. (I don't know this for a fact it could be misinformation. I saw it on TV)

Therefore the argument that no man would transition unless he has genius dysphoria could be put into question.

First start with a circular argument:
Firstly, trans women are not men who want to be women, we are women - that's why we transition.

Step 2, deny that women have any claim to the word
If being a woman is down to the oppression you experience

Step 2a, throw intersex under the bus, as if they are trans
I can't believe you people still think it's all just about XX and XY

Step 2b, address the group one supposedly belongs to, as outsiders
you people

Step 2c, back to throwing intersex under the bus

Step 3, go for some scientificy cred, start talking about that same bunch of people who thought lobotomies were a good thing last century
gender identity is an accepted fact amongst doctors and scientists

Step 4, while continuing to avoid questions, state a whopper
I didn't have to [change sex] - I was already female :-)

Wakame, nope. You cannot lay claim to all OUR words. That is erasure.

Just to make my point clearer. When I say 'less appealing' (quoting you) I mean to come out as transgender, not to be transgender. If you are truly transgender you do not have a choice.

@Kettlepotblackagain

You feel dysphoric. That's how you know. I assume you're a woman. Imagine waking up in a man's body and having to live as a man and all the expectations that come with that.

Thank you for asking an actual question.

This might help you understand:

www.them.us/story/man-made-gender-dysphoria

:)

FYI, OceanNJ, the new commenting rules apply to you also.

The one thing I want iterate here is that many trans people recognise that they are biologically male or female. They recognise that they are transgender and that their primary sex characteristics cannot change and because of that they are biologically that sex.

However, transgender is about gender not sex. Everyone seems to forget this and fails to recognise that there is a difference.

Of course within that trans people often feel dysphoric about their sex but is not all to do with this. It is also social and I fail to understand why your biology should impact on how society sees you.

Not all trans people are the type that want to denounce biology.

@thebewilderness

Please direct these to me.

Why are you tagging me when I am right here on the thread?
Google is your friend.

@thebewilderness

Alright calm down. If you tag me to point something out, expect a reply?

I've looked them up and I'm not breaking any of the guidelines.

I am calmly reporting your violations of the new guidelines specifically regarding transgender. Using the tagging function to harass the women here is rude.

1. Sweeping negative generalisations about any group, including trans people and gender-critical feminists, won’t be tolerated.

@thebewilderness

Was not harassing, was merely asking for guidance and I was unaware. If I don't tag, you won't see it, no?

If someone is interested to see what's new on a thread they can go to the thread and read it. Tagging them results in an email notification, and is the digital equivalent of poking them and saying "hey". Doing it multiple times is likely to irritate, particularly if they've already asked you to stop.

However, transgender is about gender not sex.
Your side need to get your stories straight. Wakame also claims to be female, which is SEX, not gender.

Please, do have a meeting in your gender sandbox to come to some kind of consensus. Thank you.

I suspect Oceans is a pbp who is perfectly aware of how irritating tagging is.

We are women’
No you are not.

Spot on.

wakame, what does "female identity" actually mean, if it is not related to the characteristics of biological sex?

Firstly, trans women are not men who want to be women, we are women

Do you believe humans can change sex? If so, what is the mechanism?

However, transgender is about gender not sex. Everyone seems to forget this and fails to recognise that there is a difference.

Gender is a social construct, for which there is no biological evidence, and was designed to oppress the female sex.

I cannot wait for the time when history looks back and recognises that this is just like the homophobia fifty years ago.

As a mental health nurse I can't wait until society wakes up, realises that transitioning does not improve the mental health or reduce the risk of suicide in those that transition, and comes to the conclusion that actively encouraging people to chop away at body pieces because of their mental health condition is barbaric. Maybe then we will see treatments that actually work be implemented. When I look at the treatment of gender dysphoria it makes me cringe and reminds me of insulin coma therapy for people with schizophrenia...

Apart from the Japanese seaweed type derailing, this has been a really interesting thread - particularly the poster a few pages back who worked with refugees, and the BBC article about Afghan girls being presented as boys for work and family prestige reasons.

I’ve lived in the Middle East. Never saw any obviously feminine men or masculine women, and LGBT stuff just wasn’t talked about. That said, I was mostly keeping my head down and trying to avoid the near constant sexual harassment for being foreign and unaccompanied and female, which probably hindered the amount of cultural learning I was able to do.

I know a characteristic shared by all women and only women! - NO PENIS.