How many men in Saudi Arabia wish to be women?

[RedFin]

I have NC but not for this post, I NC every so often and just happen to have done so earlier today.

It just crossed my mind to wonder how many men in more repressive countries (repressive of females that is) harbour the same desire to be female as those in Westernised countries?

I wonder if being a female seems as appealing when it means not showing your face in public, being a man's possession/responsibility, having no job, not being allowed to talk to other men, not being allowed to drive etc.

I do not know very much about trans issues (bedsides what I read on MN and then research as a result) , nor do I know very much about Saudi Arabia, so I am happy to be enlightened if I'm mistaken anywhere.

I'm not trying to be goady either, I'm just wondering about how men want to be women in a more global context

Men are also tall Wakame.

Are tall women the same as tall men?

I am tall

I am a giraffe

Do you agree I am a giraffe?

Lenin wore a beret. My father wore a beret. Therefore, my father was Lenin.

Having long hair and wearing lipstick does not make you a woman.
Gender is a socially construed concept.
To be a man in Saudi Arabia is different to bring a man in the UK.
The same for a woman.
How come all the transgender male to female I see are all characatures of women?

Because we have female identities.

I'm coming to the dawning realisation that 'female identity' pretty much boils down to 'likes skirts, dresses, long hair and make-up'.

So - present like women. Act like men.

We are talking transgender here, after all...

Let me answer that with a question. Would you choose to receive a blood transfusion from a woman with a compatible blood type to you, or an incompatible blood type?

If you were type A and they were both type A then - would you still take the transfusion? Do you understand where the sex difference comes in potentially?

I see, so females are defined by a set of physical characteristics, except the ones who are women despite not having the physical characteristics by which women are defined, unless they are trans, in which case they are not women because they lack the phsyical characteristics that you don't need in order to be defined as a woman.

No, you do not see.
Humans are sexually male and female, determined by XX which we call female in English and XY which we call male in English, from the first cell and in every cell of their body.
This is what determines the primary and secondary physical characteristics.
The characteristics do not define the sex of the person. We have simply learned, as a species, to recognize the sex characteristics that the respective sexes develop.

This has been explained to you many times before by people who are experts in the field.

We have no way of knowing what men and women would be like socially in we did not live in a society that teaches misogyny with mothers milk.
That is not were any of us live. We live in various societies that view the female half of the human population as prey for the male half of the population.
We are not prepared to negotiate our right to privacy and dignity with you. I understand you do not think we should have these rights. You have made that crystal clear.

Wakame, for me being a woman is about a shared experience of biology and how society treats us for it.
For example, 99% of girls have to learn to manage periods, the pain and awkwardness of it at a young age, and of boys and men making jokes about 'being on your period' when they said something rude and the girls are annoyed.
99% of girls experience of themselves as sexual beings doesn't come from within as a natural part of puberty, but rather from adult men suddenly staring or standing too close or groping. This is not something that children growing up and treated as boys experience from the opposite sex.
There are a thousand other examples.
I have said it before and I'll say it again, I am completely supportive of gender non-conforming people but a trans woman experience is not the same as a woman- born-as-a-girl experience.
To come on to a website for women and tell them that they are wrong about what a woman is despite their actual lived experience of growing up with and having a female body is incredibly ignorant of the realities of what its actually like being a woman.

To come on to a website for women and tell them that they are wrong about what a woman is despite their actual lived experience of growing up with and having a female body is incredibly ignorant of the realities of what its actually like being a woman.

It just confirms their inherent maleness.

Do we have a man here telling us women womaning?

Holyfuckoly.

That never happens.

and comes to the conclusion that actively encouraging people to chop away at body pieces because of their mental health condition is barbaric
Me too.

I see that Wakame moved on from denying actual women exist into using the intersex case to make the trans case. Not the same, and intersex activists get very annoyed when transactivists do that.

So argue your trans case - but leave intersex out of it.

Do we have a man here telling us women womaning?
Holyfuckoly.
That never happens.

Nope. Never. Such a novelty. A special treat. A rare honour.
To think that a superior being feels such pity for our ignorance that they are willing to spend their valuable time educating us. It's humbling. I do hope we are all duly appreciative.

They are here to educate us on the 5th rule of misogyny: Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.

Throughout the Middle East it is more acceptable for a gay man or woman to have a sex change than to be gay.

For me one of the most anger-inducing parts of being a woman is having to deal with men mansplaining me or trying to control what i think and say about what it is to be a woman.

Even worse when they start talking about their own hurt feelings when I tell them no.

Throughout the Middle East it is more acceptable for a gay man or woman to have a sex change than to be gay

That untrue. In fact the thought of either is so awful that people generally don’t even talk openly about homosexuality and sex change surgery.

It really is a taboo subject unless it’s spoken about amongst very close friends who are part of a younger generation who’ve travelled and seen more of the world. Even so there’s no ‘coming out’ here and if people knew someone was gay they’d either drop contact with them or guard their secret very well.

I think the death sentence may put people off admitting they have gender dysmorphia.

Wakame, what is a woman? You were born with a male body, socialised as male because people saw you were male, you have male hormones which maybe now you replace with synthetic female hormones, you have male body parts, bone structure but may have had surgery to feminise your appearance. For your voice to pass as female you may have had voice training or surgery to your vocal chords. If all these things have to be don to you to have a remote chance as passing as female, which part of you is originally female, given that the only way you can have a ladybrain is to be socialised into it? I really don't mind if you want to present to the world as a woman because you identify with stereotypical feminine traits but you are not a woman in the same way as one who is born female at birth.

ZOMBIE THREAD

This thread reads strangely. Its basically wakame arguing that various group of female people are not women, whilst saying that male people are female. Not one of the 'gotchas' is actually a gotya like they appear to think. Its always interesting when people start this route of questioning, if male people are not women then women who are born without wombs are not women, and so on. Such a ridiculous argument, but one that TRAs try all the damn time.

My mother got seriously upset a few weeks back after a similar argument, where one of her 'friends' told her that because she had had a hysterectomy she was the same as a tranwoman, and if she refuses to believe transwomen are women then she is also not a woman. Was bizzare to read, but it really really upset her even though she knew it was(lady) bollocks.

Are there any vaguely reliable stats to answer the OP? Otherwise isn't it all just speculation as to what the true answer is to their question

I don’t think a 6/week hiatus on a thread makes it a zombie

But, yes, a distasteful thread when homosexuality or cross dressing will get you killed