How many men in Saudi Arabia wish to be women?

[RedFin]

I have NC but not for this post, I NC every so often and just happen to have done so earlier today.

It just crossed my mind to wonder how many men in more repressive countries (repressive of females that is) harbour the same desire to be female as those in Westernised countries?

I wonder if being a female seems as appealing when it means not showing your face in public, being a man's possession/responsibility, having no job, not being allowed to talk to other men, not being allowed to drive etc.

I do not know very much about trans issues (bedsides what I read on MN and then research as a result) , nor do I know very much about Saudi Arabia, so I am happy to be enlightened if I'm mistaken anywhere.

I'm not trying to be goady either, I'm just wondering about how men want to be women in a more global context

you people

You mean those of us that understand basic human biology?

You still haven't explained how transwomen are women @Wakame.

I agree with a pp that this is a bit distasteful. You could have the same argument about homosexuality, saying it is less prevalent in African and Middle Eastern countries and using this as evidence that it is a trend or a fad. The fact is that the harshness of the penalties drives people underground and people live in fear of their lives. They cannot be their true selves even if they were trans.

"You mean those of us that understand basic human biology?"

That's your problem - to really understand human sexual dimorphism, you need to move beyond "basic" biology to the more advanced stuff.

www.scientificamerican.com/article/beyond-xx-and-xy-the-extraordinary-complexity-of-sex-determination/

Humans cannot change sex.

Not exactly related but I spoke to a woman from Saudi Arabia who said young men often dress in abaya and niqab in order to go into women's universities and listen to the conversations women have in women-only spaces.
The women now have to show their faces on their way in to prevent this from happening.
It got me thinking about the stonewall criteria of trans umbrella though so maybe it's a bit related...

@Wakame

That link you posted is about intersex disorders.

Intersex is not trans.

In what way are transwomen women @Wakame?

Wakame, what is your definition of "woman"? I'm genuinely curious.

www.autostraddle.com/a-muslim-rupaul-at-the-dawn-of-islam-tuwais-and-the-mukhannathun-198612/
Sorry for Autostraddle link but I like this story. It shows a history of difference in sexuality and gender presentation in the middle east that goes back a long way.

"You still haven't explained how transwomen are women @Wakame."

Because we have female identities. Do you have a list of characteristics that all females and only females have? No exceptions now.

Thanks for correction Terfsup! I was lazy posting whilst walking the dog.

.......
Totally agree that the reality of violent oppression of LGBT folk/non conforming women makes it an inappropriate thought experiment for us.
The entirely different circumstances make for entirely different motivations.
I have great sympathy for anyone who is forced to repress their wants/needs/desires to literally survive

......

XX and XY is the biological reality of the vast majority of the world, and it’s weird you’d think a bunch of mums wouldn’t be well aware of that, Wakame!

"Humans cannot change sex."

I didn't have to - I was already female :-)

Because we have female identities

What does this mean?

Do you have a list of characteristics that all females and only females have?

Considering you're the one who seems to think that being female is an identity and not a biological reality, then I think you should be the one to answer that question.

I was already female

How so?

Agreed, but trans people are one of the tiny minorities outside that vast majority.

Trans is not intersex.

There is actually a long tradition in Afghanistan of disguising girls as boys so that they can work and also makes the parents appear to have a son - as one of the worst countries in the world to be a woman, I don't think it goes the other way round though. The girls have to eventually live as women - some find it difficult going from the freedom of boys to the life of an Afghan woman.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15262680

"What does this mean?"

I'm not going to do your research for you, but at least you can start your research safe in the knowledge that gender identity is an accepted fact amongst doctors and scientists across the world. You challenge will be to understand why they think that.

"Considering you're the one who seems to think that being female is an identity and not a biological reality, then I think you should be the one to answer that question."

Ha ha - thought you might struggle a little there.

If tw are women, then why the prefix "trans"? And why the need to transition? If that were a true statement prefixes would be unnecessary.

Wakame, are you saying that trans people do not have XX or XY chromosomes?

And tiny minorities are not women.

Women are 51%.

"There is actually a long tradition in Afghanistan of disguising girls as boys so that they can work "

You mean they grow up with male privilege? Doesn't than mean they aren't women?

You have to believe in gender to believe in gender identity Wakame.

We’re all gender atheists here.