Game of Thrones Season 7, Episode 5 discussion thread ** SPOILERS**

[OlennasWimple]

WARNING: HERE BE DRAGONS (probably) AND SPOILERS

THIS THREAD IS FOR DISCUSSION OF SEASON 7, EPISODE 5 "EASTWATCH"

Come and discuss the fifth episode in the penultimate series, airing August 14th at 2am UK time! Don't read the thread if you want to avoid finding out what happens in Season 7 but also Seasons 1-6. Only three more episodes to go this season!!

Please avoid discussing leaks and production details for Seasons 7 and 8 but speculate away on what we have learnt from the new episodes and what it might mean for the rest of the Season and the ultimate winner(s) of the Game of Thrones. There is a spoiler thread running here if you want to talk about production leaks and insider information as well

I must be the only disapporoving voice in the house, but I thought the dialogue this episode was really crap.

Way too much fan-service and predictable witty one-liners. I liked the conversation between Tyrion and Varys about the Mad King, but even that seemed to fall flat at the end.

Dany's 'let's build a better world together or I'll burn you'.... WTF?

At the moment I want the NK to be on the Iron Throne - at least he's consistent!

Gasp I too fear for Bronn. Cersei made a point re his betrayal. If she does kill him, it would be another dagger for Jaime.

But Cersei being pregnant means that Jaime will stay loyal to her - he was genuinely happy by the news and the fact that he can say this is my 'son'. I say son as am convinced this will be the little brother who strangles the life from Cersei.

The Hound didn't have enough air time, but he made me chuckle when he said 'get on with it' or similar.

I like all the characters in the Eastwatch crew but if ole blue eyes must take somebody, best be Thoros and Beric. But good point about immortal meets undead. Maybe Thoros will.die and then Beric, without Thoros around to help (hasn't Beric nearly maxed out his 9 lives anyway?) maybe The Hound will bring him back now that he's seen the light...

Well, at least Arya has finally achieved the status of 'No-one'.

In the 'ice cells' we have the Brotherhood, the Hound, Gendry and Jon Snow. Not one of them mentions Arya, it's as if she has just ceased to exist (along with Ghost, who finally got an honourable mention from Sansa for his absence). Talk about oliphant in the room!

I've said it on the spoilers thread, but as we now know Cersei is pregnant I'll share my valonquar theory here. Who else could be the little brother/sister (depending on if this is as genderless as the prince/ess that was promised)...? How about Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella's littlest sibling...? You heard it here first - Cersei dies in childbirth, leaving the throne free for whoever.

(If it's Jon, it also ends the "rebellion" with someone dying in childbirth, as it began...)

They'll go to winterfell after operation catch-a-zombie, that's when arya-Sansa-hound/arya-gendry/arya-Jon/Mormont-Mormont/Jon-bran (did I miss anyone?) reunions will happen

Arya - I agree. Maybe the finale of S8 will just be a meme....

christmas - Jamie didn't ask who the father is, he asked who Cersei would say that the father is given that she is unmarried (another bastard!), they cannot marry, and they hid the true parentage of their first three children. Jaime has never been able to publicly acknowledge - and mourn - the horrific deaths of his children, so the proposal to name him as the father now is huge for him.

Jon doesn't know gendry knows arya, nor that the hound does (beyond being in the KG back in the time of Ned). Plus gendry and the hound don't know about each other knowing her. And neither gendry nor the hound know that she is alive and in winterfell now. So I guess none of them have a pressing reason to mention her right now?

Beyond - I thought that too. I'm assuming that in WEsteros "cervix" also means "neck", so she would die with her baby getting stuck during delivery

I guess none of them have a pressing reason to mention her right now?

It would appear so. Still makes me a bit to see how little impact characters seem to have on each other. At least Tormund hasn't forgotten about Brianne :-P

I love the idea that Cersei dies due to her pregnancy. It could happen in the books as well - she's certainly got fat!

She could be really feeling invincible right now too, that by having a fourth child she is beating the prophecy. :(

Is there really a budding romance between Jon and Danaerys? She seemed more into it than he was.
Wish you good fortune in the wars ahead... than walk off briskly not a look back.
Not exactly a romantic farewell- he was more moved leaving his (not) sister... 😉

Oh Danny and ser jorah was so touching! And stupid Dickon nobly dying made me cry, also Jon totally overwhelmed by Drogon was emotional. But I just love Jaime more and more he better not die ( or at least not before kissing brienne)

I remember when I first read the leaked plot back in October I thought it was fake because the idea of going on a Wight hunt to try and 'prove' to Cersei that the undead threat was real and that humanity should all work together for a higher purpose was a fucking stupid storyline.

Now, having watched it, I think it's a fucking stupid storyline.

I'm sure it will look spectacular. The plot just sucks.

He has the sexiest glower in the world!
Mmm

I loved this episode! Felt like so much happened.

Dany - you have a choice - bend the knee or die err not much choice there! She does seem into Jon but him...not so much. Loved him and the dragon - the dragon KNOWS!

Gendry's back! I thought you'd still be rowing - totally for the fans but Davos saying it made it ok. I thought Gendry might have mentioned to Jon that he'd travelled with Arya, would have been a nice touch.

Cersei preggers!! It didn't occur to me she was lying but maybe! She kind of threatened Jamie too didn't she? Hope Bronn is ok...

Oh my god Sam didn't even hear what Gilly said! Not that he would have registered it was anything to do with Jon but still..he was too busy ranting about shits!

I had to wind back to look at the scroll. So LF is deliberately enticing Arya to create a rift, but surely they won't fall for it?

Tormund asking about the big woman and the brotherhood! It's all coming together!

Have I missed anything? I really want to rewatch but I'm going on hols later today and I won't see next week's til at least Thursday!

When Jon & co went to see The hound and co in the cells, Thoros recognised Jorah. I don't remember them meeting in the show - do they have a history?

Thoras and Jorah fought together back when Robert Baratheon laid siege to Pyke (Iron Islands) during Balon Greyjoy's rebellion

It's a very small world: everyone knows each other or is related to each other... Though they don't talk about it much - I wish someone would give a nod to connecting characters like Arya every now and again

I don't think Littlefingers plan is going to go as smoothly as he thinks it will.
For a start he's using what he knows of the Starks as children to influence his thinking.
Back in season one Ned explained to Arya after the direwolf incident that Sansa couldn't move or speak against Joffery as she was his betrothed and had no choice in backing him up.
I don't think Arya was being bratty with her statements to Sansa. I think it was a warning to acknowledge that part of her and temper it with the maturity she now has.
Then there's Bran. He was unconcerned about Littlefinger, doesn't mean he isn't still going to be a pain in the arse, just that his plans are going to come to nothing. Perhaps it's time he looked at exactly what Littlefinger has been up to and relays it to Sansa. He fucked their parents over quite soundly and repeatedly.

I think Littlefinger whilst rattled by Bran thinks he can pass it off as the ravings of a mad cripple. Arya whilst skilled, he doesn't know exactly how skilled and will try to have her sent away as a dangerous, psychopathic loose cannon no one can afford to have around. We still have the lone wolf dies but the pack survives speech by Sansa to come, perhaps it is the speech in which she sentences Littlefinger to death. All of this will happen before Jon gets back.

I think the tragedy of it is Sansa will have to acknowledge she has become like Littlefinger and Ramsay. She has no fear to use violence as weapon of terror anymore. No longer is she a little girl dreaming of being a lady, she knows the murderous steel it takes to get there and if it should come to it won't be afraid to take those steps. I think she will rise in season 8 whilst Dany and Jons destinies come to fruition with the fight against the dead. Perhaps she finally winkles Cersei out of her hole for the Valonquar to do their job (this could be anyone, being genderless and confusing as High Valyrian is. It's literally just little sibling, not specifically Cersei's sibling. So anyone who has or had older brothers or sisters could end up fitting the bill).
I thought it might be Arya wearing Jaimes face but now realise it doesn't have to be.

I don't think Arya's currently in any position to be giving warnings to Sansa on the darker side of her personality. Her suggestion on how to deal with Royce and Glover speaks volumes about where her head is at the moment.

There are precious few hours of screen time left in the series as a whole and the writers should be concentrating on trying to pull Arya back from the 'Lady Stoneheat' psycho-killer arc they've given her. They're not doing a good job right now.

Maybe that's what GRRM intends for her and she'll end up being a totally dark and un-redeemable character...

Ah welcome back Gendry!
What did the scroll say? Was anyone able to read it?
Fancy so fancies Jon. Jon so couldn't give a monkeys. Dragons definitely know stuff

Backing up my reasoning that the unborn Lannister baby is the valonquar, is the original MTF prophecy btw...

Cersei: Will the king and I have children?
Maggy: Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.

...which tacks cerseis death onto her question about children

What did the scroll say?

The scroll is the one Cersei made Sansa write when she was a hostage in King's Landing. It basically says that Ned Stark is a traitor and that Catelyn and Robb should bend the knee to Joffrey as the rightful king.

I'm sure Tywin's Cupbearer will appreciate that she probably had to write it under duress, but not until we've had a few moments of conflict first .

Beyond good catch! I like this idea more and more.

Thanks Arya

Underthemoonlight - I like the theory of Gendry challenging. Normally, I'd have thought not as he is a bastard, but Jon became King in the north.

I need clarification from an expert. Any of you bastard experts able to legitamise this theory please?

Well there is no concept of bastard in Essos, that was worthy of one of the all valuable in theory lines this season

If there are no bastards, his claim is valid - though he does still follow the usurper so...