Game of Thrones Season 7, Episode 5 discussion thread ** SPOILERS**

[OlennasWimple]

WARNING: HERE BE DRAGONS (probably) AND SPOILERS

THIS THREAD IS FOR DISCUSSION OF SEASON 7, EPISODE 5 "EASTWATCH"

Come and discuss the fifth episode in the penultimate series, airing August 14th at 2am UK time! Don't read the thread if you want to avoid finding out what happens in Season 7 but also Seasons 1-6. Only three more episodes to go this season!!

Please avoid discussing leaks and production details for Seasons 7 and 8 but speculate away on what we have learnt from the new episodes and what it might mean for the rest of the Season and the ultimate winner(s) of the Game of Thrones. There is a spoiler thread running here if you want to talk about production leaks and insider information as well

I guess he needs a claim and people to rally round him?

Jon's case is different- he was always recognises by Ned and was brought up as part of the family.
He fought to retake Winterfell and was supported by (at the time) the only known living Stark heir.

Gendry would have to prove his link with Robert (not sure if the word of Davos counts).

I just got the impression they have brought Genry back for a reason and he seemed OTT about a father who was a stranger to him. Yes they did make Jon king but he was still a lord so he had a lords upbringing regardless that he's a bastard which ironically this episode showed he's playing legimate heir to the seven kingdoms over dany.

Playing - actually a

We're going on a Wight hunt
We're going to catch a dead one
What a beautiful day
We're all fucking scared!

A very wordy and slow one tonight after last week. Worried about Arya and Sansa. Someone needs to off Littlefinger asap.

Thought the look between Dany and Jorah the Explorer was very meaningful. Is he really going to come back again?

And cheered at Gendry and all the business on the beach.

If Cersei is upduffed, could she give birth to a dwarf? That would really fuck her up

The actor who plays Gendry looks like the love-child of Christian Bale and Michael Fassbender. It's mildly disturbing!

Beric and Thoros to die on the wight hunt, Thoros first and then Beric (as no Thoros to revive him).
Keeping my fingers crossed that LF is dead soon.

How is Qyburn controlling the mountain? How did he re-animate him? What did he learn at the citadel? Surely this is relevant somehow?

Cersei's been drinking constantly since Robert died.

If this baby exists, I fear for its health.

Qyburn and Sam are now both semi-trained not-Maesters - I wonder if they'll meet.

I thought Qyburn was a maester who lost his chain because of his interests in the occult?

Joe Dempsie, who plays Gendry, is my age. This is a relief, isn't he about 14 in the books and therefore too young to fancy without being a creep?

I really enjoyed this episode, there were quite a few 'ohmygosh' moments. I'm not sure how I feel about the cat and mouse game Littlefinger and Arya were playing. I hope Arya doesn't fall for his shit, but I also think it's interesting that when she was in Braavos she was no one and that made it easier to sneak and disappear. Arya Stark was a dead girl from a different continent when she was Cat of the Canals. It's harder to be No One at Winterfell.

I don't know if Cersai really is pregnant. If she is, that baby will never breathe air.

I did find it interesting to contrast Jon's honour - 'yep, she's seriously hot and has dragons, but I got a war to fight, no time for romancin' with Robb's - 'I have a war to fight but I accidentally fell and put my penis in Jayne so now we've to get married and fuck my promises and the greater good cause I'm a man of honour.'
Maybe it just shows their differing levels of maturity, Robb was just a boy whereas Jon Snow is all man.

And I think it'll be Gilly that reveals all when someone happens to mention Lyanna and/or Rhaegar.

I quite enjoyed this episode, that is until the very end, where I was sitting thinking 'Where the FUCK is GHOST'.
Come on, surely they could have just shown Drogon flying over Dragonstone, and saved a bit of the CGI budget for Ghost.
I can picture it now, the fellowship of 'you know nothing', walking into the mist, camera pans through the mist, and there's ghost, big as a horse, padding behind them, teeth showing, camera zooms in on those red, red eyes... End scene.
I'm just gonna pretend in my head that's how it happened.

Jon would not have gone North of The Wall without Ghost would he?

I have forgotten what Qyburn did, whether he was stripped of his chain or never really earned it.

what I don't understand about Gilly's revelation re: Rhaegar is how he could just annul his marriage to Elia? Annulment is different to divorce - surely he would have needed a legitimate reason for it (e.g marriage being unconsummated which obvs wasn't true)- I just fancy someone else not being a good reason!

Plus it makes Rhaegar look like even more of a dickhead, when he was supposed to be this glorious prince - bad enough cheating on your wife, but then you annul your marriage thereby disinheriting your first two children? Which makes even less sense in book terms as in AFFC apparently Rhaegar was convinced that the PTWP was his son Aegon - unless something happened to convince him it was the as yet unborn Jon?

Even so, surely it would have made sense to just have two wives, which isn't unheard of for Targaryens?

"Because my dad will have you set on fire if you don't write it down officially"?

Wtf with Jaime and Bron's miraculous underwater swim in armour! AND Sam totally missing what Gilly was saying! Although I suppose he has no reason (that he knows of) to care about Prince Rhaegar particularly. Unless it also says in the book who he's marrying, at which point the penny should drop. Oh no, it won't, because no one knows Lyanna was Jon's mother apart from Bran and thingummy Reed.

Squee at Drogon recognising Jon, though!

Surely Cersei dying in childbirth is a bit tame for GoT? She needs to be lovingly strangled to death by Jaime!

Does anyone else think today's episode was signalling that Dany gave in to Jon in the Cave of Convenience last week and didn't make him bend the knee?

Sam can't go back to be Lord Tarly - he took the black and there's no going back. Little Sam is therefore now Lord Tarly! (Acknowledged by Randall although he's not Sam's child - aaargh, what does that mean???? Sam isn't allowed to marry as a member of the Night's Watch, but did he actually marry Gilly? He abandoned his vows far enough to shag but think that was all). I'm so confused!

Was anyone else wondering how the hell Tyrion was planning on just waltzing in and out of King's Landing undisguised, after Cersei putting a bounty on dwarf heads? They could at least have made some nod to subterfuge!

Love Gendry!

Wondering about the end game - surely after all the stuff about incest so far (inc Cersei's walk of shame) the story can't end with another incestuous couple on the Iron Throne? Plus, possibly more importantly, what happens to all the folks who have risen from the dead? I don't really see them surviving long past the ultimate denouement. If Rh'llor brought them back, surely it was for a specific purpose, i.e., defeat the White Walkers? I'm betting that the previously dead are pivotal to the success, but have to sacrifice themselves to do it. Oooh. Maybe we'll see a forerunner of that with Beric heading out in the wight hunt! I think Jon will re-die in the final battle saving the world - what exactly is the prophecy about the Prince Who Was Promised? Maybe Gendry winds up on the Iron Throne after all!

Under the Roman Catholic Church, annulment happened, but definitely needed a reason. This was Henry VIII's problem - his reason of previous marriage to Prince Arthur his brother wasn't accepted after Katharine of Aragon insisted her first marriage wasn't consummated. Although Katharine's nephew the Holy Roman Emperor effectively holding the Pope hostage didn't help either. But as this is fantasy, I guess they can do as they like. It still seems likely that some people will question Jon's legitimacy. But he doesn't have to be formally legitimate to be better for Westeros than what has been happening so far and some sort of democracy has got to be better than half crazy Dany. I hope the Iron Throne gets destroyed, as it is a symbol of oppression.

Sam and Dickon have a younger sister who was to be wed to someone she didn't want to, I can't remember who at the moment. Surely she's now Lady Tarly?
Yet another lady leader for those counting.
She seemed lovely, but fit for ruling in such an unsettled climate?

Raah, not rtft yet but legitimate! Gendry! Argh! Really don't want Dany and Jon to get together though- it's not right :/

Oh yes, forgot her! Not sure what was meant by Randall acknowledging Little Sam - I suppose he'd just be an acknowledged bastard grandson and not in the line of succession. leaving aside the fact that he's Craster's son and not a Tarly at all

I suppose Dany could end up Queen of the Seven Kingdoms in her role as next of kin to Jon if he really does die in the final battle!

Are we gearing up for major civil unrest if Cersei proclaims herself pregnant with Jaime's child? The citizens of Westeros all hate her as it is.

I suppose really there will be no Seven Kingdoms at the end - I reckon they'll have fractured into their individual kingdoms. I don't see the North ever bending the knee again, for a start. Or the Greyjoys. King Theon or Queen Yara?

Cersei is pregnant, and is maybe killed during immediately after childbirth by a white walker, we know they like babies, although we don't know exactly what they do to them.
To offer an alternative theory to childbirth itself killing Cersei.
I agree that the catch a zombie plan is a stupid stupid plot line.
Love the dragons though!

I think the highborns know that Jaimie and Cersai are all about twincest and have gone beyond that. And the lay people just don't want to die.
The church has been annihilated and don't have any more power.

Other than siding with Dany, how else could the people rebel? This is the woman who blew up the sept and all in it rather than facing trial. And winter is coming so getting the feck out of Kings Landing might not be a great idea either.

Baby Sam as the head of the Tarly household is a little bit ironic though, after Randall threw Sam out to die on the wall and hated wildlings with every bone in his body.

As a side note - did Gendry just keep a bug-out bag in his forge for when this day came? And leaves the fire burning?

Loved Dany's face looking at Jon stroking the dragon - that melted her a bit. (I couldn't fall in love with someone my pets hated..!). Jon never was very forward or switched on with women, Ygritte did all the running.. He can't multi task, and is wrapped up with white walkers.

Could Ayria be tricking Littlefinger into thinking he's ahead of her? Her search didn't seem as pro and slick as anything else she's done since her journey.

Not sure about Cersei. If she did have spies at the meeting of Jaime and Tiryon then she'd know she needed a trick to rein Jaime back in and that he was waivering.