My DH and DD don't get on and it's hurting our family

[firelandmumma]

NC for this, long time MN-er!

For context: DD is 8.5 and I split with her dad when she was a baby. We ended things very amicably and have a brilliant co-parenting relationship, we are close friends, consult each other on all parenting decisions. We have her each half the week - 2.5 days here, 2.5 days at his, alternate weekends. Have done this since she was about 2. She has great relationships with me and her dad and apart from general sassiness and boundary testing, I'd say we are close.

Have long suspected DD is autistic and she is on the waiting list for assessment. Won't go into all the symptoms but one important one is that she is not a touchy person at all. The only people she will touch at all are me, her dad and one grandparent. She doesn't hug or hold hands, would absolutely never kiss any other relative and never has, even those she's very close to.

I met DH when she was 2y 10m old. We took things slowly initially and then he moved in during one of the covid lockdowns. I think he found it unusual even after we'd been together a few years when DD would never give him a bedtime hug or let him read to her etc, but never really questioned it and didn't try to force it. He tried to bond by playing games and play fighting and doing other funny things. As she got older, these behaviors heightened. She refused to let him take her to school (although we have moved past this now) and says 'i just want mummy'. For a while I pandered to it but it seemed to make it worse. Won't drink a drink he's made her, won't let him even pass her things.

Fast forward to today. She's 8.5, has two little sisters aged 3 and 1.

Whenever DD8 is her, she argues with DH non stop. It's just constant. She refuses to call him by his nickname (which is his established name, think Sam and Samuel) and only calls him by his full name which he hates. She speaks to him in this rude arrogant tone. If he speaks to her 'have you had a good day at school DD8?' she either completely blanks him or says 'yes I have, mummy'. At night time we will go to say good night to her and she goes 'night love you mummy' and he will say 'night DD8' - again, she blanks him. Sometimes if I prompt her, she will then go 'oh, night' to him.

Recently the behaviours have intensified and she's started hitting him, which her sisters have started copying. We are not a violent family at all, aside from play fighting and messing about. Earlier, DH asked DD to please move out of the way as he was trying to clean her room up. She replied 'no' and he said 'DD, I need to sort this stuff, and I can't if you're there' to which she just turned around and tried to kick him. He then walked into me and said he's done, she's a brat and he can't deal with it anymore.

Little 2 asleep so I have come into the bathroom, locked the door and told them I'm not speaking to either of them until they grow up and sort it out because it's upsetting me.

This is daily for YEARS. I just don't know what to do.

Obviously I've had many, many conversations with DD about this and why she doesn't like him, she just says 'i just don't he's DD3/1's dad not mine' or 'i don't know' or 'he's annoying'.

On occasions they're alone together when I've sent them on bonding exercises, they've actually got a long really well, especially if they do sports. But it's so short lived and usually ends the moment I'm back in the room.

Has anyone, anyone experienced this and have any advice?

I love my DH. I love my DD8. I'm worried about the impact on my other DDs and the family as a whole.

Autistic or not, she clearly isn't happy. Could she be jealous of your younger DDs? Is there any way at all that she could feel different and not part of the rest of the family? Any indication to her that if only she wasn't there, it would all be perfect?

I'm trying very hard to be gentle, but you told your 8yo DC to grow up? Because you are upset? You and DH are the adults here. She sounds upset pretty much every day.

Have you tried being a bit stricter with her, since other ways didn’t work? ‘Right DD, you say you don’t like him, that’s ok because we can’t like everyone the same, but disrespectful behaviour is not ok and there will be consequences’. Rather than making her like him, tell her you acknowledge her feelings, but hitting and blanking/being rude is not on because even if we don’t like someone we need to show them basic respect.

What are the consequences for her rude and openly disrespectful behaviour. Because from your OP it doesn’t seem like there’s any?

she is being quite rude and offensive to him for no reason and it seems there’s no expectation from you for her to be civil or mannerly.

she doesn’t have to be besties but the examples you give are quite rude from her. Every time she is rude you need to step and give consequences. If she ignores him or is rude when he speaks to her consequences.

does she know what expectations you have
of her in terms of manners in your household?

She has been rude but also physically violent and no consequences? That’s not ok?

She has never really exhibited any jealousy over younger siblings, although I know when she's at her dad's she worries about missing out - we do make it very clear we never go on days out, holidays or anything when she isn't here. We make a real effort to ensure she knows she is part of the family and included in everything. I will have a chat with her about this though and try and see if any of that rings true with her feelings.

And yes, I did lose my rag and obviously it wasn't the right thing to say. Before saying that and leaving the room I did take her to our room and try to sit her down and have a conversation with her about it, explain she couldn't be hitting people as it's not kind, why does she hit stepdad but not me etc and she just yelled at me and said she's angry sometimes and he annoys her more than I do. I said I understand that but why doesn't she try and tell him that and talk about those feelings instead of immediately yelling/hitting, that it's ok to feel angry/annoyed and I feel those feelings sometimes too. She just said I'm being annoying now and she doesn't know why she does it. I said we need to stop the lashing out because it's making younger sisters do it too and she said she doesn't care and it's funny. Which is when my bath was ready so I took her back into her bedroom where DH was back sorting stuff after saying she was a brat and said something like, right you two sort this out, these childish arguments, all the 'he said she said' and the hitting is doing my head in now, I love you both but grow up both of you and sort it out. They just both huffed at me so I shut the door.

Stop playfighting.

Seek professional support referral to family therapy.

so there are no consequences for her behaviour …

It doesn’t really matter why she doesn’t like him (unless you suspect he is abusung her).

she doesn’t. Many children don’t like a step parent,

hitting and kicking is pretty extreme and I would be coming down very hard on that.

what’s the situation on the other side if the family? Obviously you have remarried and have a new partner and new kids. Does your ex also have a new partner and kids?

very few eight year olds can articulate why they don’t like something. Best way to work it out is trial and error.

I’m sorry for your dh as it sounds like he’s really tried. I’m only guessing but perhaps she feels he loves her siblings more as they’re biologically his.. who knows. But I agree, if she won’t tell you how she really feels and why, you still have to give her consequences or dh will quite rightly resent it.

Wow I think if I was your DH I’d be fuming at you dressing me down like a child and calling me childish in this situation. Your dd has been openly disrespectful and physically violent and you’re accusing him of engaging in childish arguments. In his shoes I’d be questioning if I wanted to continue living this way.

This is a really tough one, because the signs have been there from the start that she didn’t warm to this man, didn’t want to bond with him and didn’t accept him as family. Now there are two younger siblings and she’s in a family with the man she’s never liked or accepted; it must be constantly stressful and uncomfortable for her. Typically autistic girls mask a lot at school and in social situations, which is exhausting for them and can lead to “after-school restraint collapse” at home; it’s even more important for these children that home is a safe haven where they can relax and be themselves. I suspect his presence is making that difficult for her, hence the bad behaviour which is her communicating her distress in the only way she knows how.

Would you consider family therapy to work on the dynamics and help everyone understand each other better? Maybe some autism-informed play therapy for her as well.

why she doesn’t like him is separate thing from her behaviour.

she doesn’t have to like him or be friends. But she should be civil and not be hitting or kicking anyone.

you are not enforcing her having civil behaviour in the home to others. Ignoring or hitting are not acceptable behaviour. Deal with that first.

her personal grudges or annoyance are separate.

Saying 'you two sort it out' as if they're equal, is completely out of order. I think you need to support your husband more and your daughter needs some consequences.

Not to drip feed but I could probably write a book of stuff about the situation and the OP was already so long. We do have consequences, I'm not sure I handle it particularly right. I don't want her to feel like she's being picked on more than her sisters and she does do quite a lot of manipulative 'daddy never tells me off' or 'you love DD3 and DD1 more than me' if she's ever told off.

We do quite a lot of removing her favourite toy or iPad, not going out to places because of behaviour - although generally we don't do that many days out anyway because of her (suspected) autism, it is very hard work to go out anywhere as a family, she has food aversions, hates noise etc. We have also done time outs/quiet time in her room. Also we do reward charts for good behaviour and try to do 1:1 activities with all the children so we have good individual relationships with all of them.

I'm very open to discipline though, if anyone has anything that really works with theirs.

There are a lot of complex feelings here and your DD cannot articulate hers so she is lashing out as a result. Trying to get to the bottom of why she feels angry is crucial. i doubt it is anything in particular about your DH. Possibly she feels like she doesn’t fit in to either family compared to her half sisters and sees your DH as the person she can take that out on….

Sorry but you are setting up huge disparity for your other dds, not only do you say we do make it very clear we never go on days out, holidays or anything when she isn't here. so her sisters get no treats/fun if she’s not there, they also don’t get anything if she is there? generally we don't do that many days out anyway because of her (suspected) autism,
you’re letting her rule the roost.

I have some experience of this with an autistic step son. I too experienced them refusing to eat food I’d made, or refusing to let me take them to school. It is hard, eventually they catch you at a low ebb and you can no longer rationally say ‘that’s autism talking’ but you take it personally and end up feeling frustrated, angry and upset.

I also had their Mum complicating matters by telling them not to accept things from me or not to do certain things, which I think was done out of a place of safety/kindness but actually, caused some really tough situations.

Things that helped. There’s two.
One: we worked really hard to bring the overall conflict and anxiety level in the house down. We didn’t enter into arguments we sent them off to regulate before we tried to discuss a problem - especially when they came home from school, we didn’t force food we just put it on the table and let them choose, we gave limited choice eg. Do you want a bath or a shower? We only picked battles that were worth it. We had read about PDA, and we used the principles of dealing with it, successfully to reduce anxiety.

Two: Dad backed me and corrected behaviour at every point. So if there was a kick off about me taking them to school, it was met by ‘tough, it has to be this way, I have to work’. If it was that I’d asked them to do something and it was met with refusal, it was backed by Dad that they would do it. End of.

I won’t lie, we operated in this way for six months before we saw a BIG change, and school saw it too. But from a more rational base of reduced anxiety we were then able to create a relationship rather than try and force it and be frustrated.

”I met DH when she was 2y 10m old. We took things slowly initially and then he moved in during one of the covid lockdowns.”

You might have fudged the details for anonymity, please don’t feel you have to share details. But if this but is accurate, then that’s not slow. You met him 5y8m ago, so early 2020 and then he moved in late 2020? And at that age the pandemic would have changed her whole social experience of the world at the same time. It’s obviously too late to say to take it slower, but it may be worth thinking about other things you might have minimised that will be a really big deal to your daughter. In her short 8 years, she’s had parents split up at 2yo, a new adult move in at 3yo, a new sibling at 5yo and 7yo. That’s a lot of change. Without making it about SEN, there’s a lot to consider there for her. Switching homes every 2.5 days can also be exhausting and destabilising and she’s been doing it since 2yo. I feel like this is all a lot on a little kid.

Doesn't sound like your DH is really doing anything wrong so treating them both like bickering children isn't fair.
This is your problem to sort out essentially - you brought this man into your child's life and want her to live with him.

Sounds like there is little in the way of discipline or consequences - an 8 year old hitting or kicking anyone, especially an adult/parent, is completely unacceptable and should not be tolerated.

I think you will need to seek some professional help to work out what is going on with your DD - a therapist that understands autism in particular.

If she doesn't like being touched why on earth is DH playfighting with her? I do wish men, in general, would find better ways than playfighting to relate to children and it certainly isn't appropriate in this case.
I can imagine that the poor girl struggles terribly with living in 2 different houses/ families with different rules and expectations alongside yet a different set of expectations at school.
I think all the adults in her life would benefit from parenting classes and I wonder if school could arrange opportunities for her to talk to someone about her she feels about it all.

Why is he in her room cleaning it up? She needs her own space. If her room needs cleaning you go help her do it. She clearly felt he was invading even more of her personal space being in her room unwanted.

Why is your DH tidying her bedroom? You’re her parent, if the room needs tidying you should be doing it (preferably with DD).

You need to avoid obvious conflict situations. Having a man she doesn’t like in her bedroom going through her things is obviously going to upset your DD, it would certainly upset me, maybe a messy bedroom upsets your DH, so you, as the parent, need to step up and step in and say “I’ll clean DD’s room with her” whilst your DH does a different chore or watches telly or whatever.

This is not an easy situation, but you knew from the start that your DD didn’t particularly like your partner and yet you made the decision to live with him and marry him, thus forcing your DD to live with him, so the responsibility is now on you to make sure your DD feels at ease in her own home that she has to share with a man whose company she doesn’t enjoy.

I know this sounds harsh and unfair because you wanted a new relationship and you wanted more DC etc and your lives shouldn’t be ruled by your child BUT, please accept your child has done a lot of compromising here to make you happy. She’s living with a man she doesn’t want to live with, has two new siblings she probably fears you love more as you live with seven days a week (I’m not saying that’s how it is, just how children often feel), so you need to put in some effort to make her living situation happier.

Shouting at your partner and child to sort things out between themselves while you disappear for a bath isn’t going to resolve anything.

I suggest therapy for your DD and also for you and her, so she can tell you how she really feels instead of lashing out physically and verbally and using your DH as a punching bag.

I thought this. Her behaviour is bad but he shouldn’t be cleaning her room. And both of you going to say goodnight is odd.

Again due to post length I've missed some details sorry but he wasn't cleaning up any of her stuff in her room, our house is a funny layout, haven't lived here that long and not been able to do any renovations yet and as it stands, and we have one of the smaller bedrooms that has not much storage. DD has the bedroom that has all the storage (3 massive built in wardrobes) so DH and I have our clothes stored in one of them for now. He was in there sorting loads of clothes out while I was sorting something else. Pre-christmas clear out/organise trying to get sorted.

She's been moving between houses every 2.5 days, for years? That sounds stressful even to me as an adult!

Maybe alternating weeks would be a bit calmer? She needs to feel more settled and secure.