My DH and DD don't get on and it's hurting our family

[firelandmumma]

NC for this, long time MN-er!

For context: DD is 8.5 and I split with her dad when she was a baby. We ended things very amicably and have a brilliant co-parenting relationship, we are close friends, consult each other on all parenting decisions. We have her each half the week - 2.5 days here, 2.5 days at his, alternate weekends. Have done this since she was about 2. She has great relationships with me and her dad and apart from general sassiness and boundary testing, I'd say we are close.

Have long suspected DD is autistic and she is on the waiting list for assessment. Won't go into all the symptoms but one important one is that she is not a touchy person at all. The only people she will touch at all are me, her dad and one grandparent. She doesn't hug or hold hands, would absolutely never kiss any other relative and never has, even those she's very close to.

I met DH when she was 2y 10m old. We took things slowly initially and then he moved in during one of the covid lockdowns. I think he found it unusual even after we'd been together a few years when DD would never give him a bedtime hug or let him read to her etc, but never really questioned it and didn't try to force it. He tried to bond by playing games and play fighting and doing other funny things. As she got older, these behaviors heightened. She refused to let him take her to school (although we have moved past this now) and says 'i just want mummy'. For a while I pandered to it but it seemed to make it worse. Won't drink a drink he's made her, won't let him even pass her things.

Fast forward to today. She's 8.5, has two little sisters aged 3 and 1.

Whenever DD8 is her, she argues with DH non stop. It's just constant. She refuses to call him by his nickname (which is his established name, think Sam and Samuel) and only calls him by his full name which he hates. She speaks to him in this rude arrogant tone. If he speaks to her 'have you had a good day at school DD8?' she either completely blanks him or says 'yes I have, mummy'. At night time we will go to say good night to her and she goes 'night love you mummy' and he will say 'night DD8' - again, she blanks him. Sometimes if I prompt her, she will then go 'oh, night' to him.

Recently the behaviours have intensified and she's started hitting him, which her sisters have started copying. We are not a violent family at all, aside from play fighting and messing about. Earlier, DH asked DD to please move out of the way as he was trying to clean her room up. She replied 'no' and he said 'DD, I need to sort this stuff, and I can't if you're there' to which she just turned around and tried to kick him. He then walked into me and said he's done, she's a brat and he can't deal with it anymore.

Little 2 asleep so I have come into the bathroom, locked the door and told them I'm not speaking to either of them until they grow up and sort it out because it's upsetting me.

This is daily for YEARS. I just don't know what to do.

Obviously I've had many, many conversations with DD about this and why she doesn't like him, she just says 'i just don't he's DD3/1's dad not mine' or 'i don't know' or 'he's annoying'.

On occasions they're alone together when I've sent them on bonding exercises, they've actually got a long really well, especially if they do sports. But it's so short lived and usually ends the moment I'm back in the room.

Has anyone, anyone experienced this and have any advice?

I love my DH. I love my DD8. I'm worried about the impact on my other DDs and the family as a whole.

She was almost 3 when you met your DH and is 8 now yet you said ‘you took things slowly’ but he moved in during lock down. You didn’t take it slowly, you moved a man in during a time of huge social upheaval when her routine was disrupted due to lock down. Really poor decision from you. No wonder he doesn’t like him, she associates him with the most disruptive period of her life. Taking things slowly with your new man was not what you did. You sacrificed your DD’s safety and security by quickly moving a man into her home.

Unfortunately the lack of parenting has caused the issues, seek help for both your daughter and yourself so you acquire the skills that are needed.

Yeah I think your DH sounds lovely and you’ve allowed him to be treated like crap for years. the fact she is like this with him but then gets on with him suggests she actually feels safe with him that he’ll not lash out at her or just leave.

He is going to have had enough about now if his own children are now following her lead. Would you stick around to let someone else’s kid fuck up your relationship with your own children and make them aggressive?

im thinking the 2.5 days thing means one week one of you has her Monday, Tuesday and wed morn, the other has her wed afternoon - Sunday? Is that right? Because the 2.5 day thing makes it sound insane. If she is autistic change is not easy and if you’re pandering to her because you’re worried she’s gonna prefer her dad over you, you’re actually not providing her with consistency - you’re saying ‘don’t do that’ but then letting her do it and issuing no consequences.

Anyway, she is a little girl who feels pushed out so She is trying to push your husband out. Now she’s a bit older and probably because the house is always arguing over her attitude, she is feeling attacked - so she is attacking him.(you’re always telling her she’s doing something wrong, which she is…but she feels she isn’t because in her head she is justified in her jealousy and therefore in her behaviour),

you need to get her some therapy. And honestly I’d explain to her that she felt pushed out as a little. now she’s older she can obviously see that she’s wanted but sometimes gets angry and maybe a bit jealous. But that’s ok because we’ve all felt like that (tell her a story of when you felt that way) Give her the words. Look for some books to share with her to begin the conversation. Or a tv show where someone is feeling what she feels.

You locked yourself in the bathroom and told him that he was as bad as her?

that’s very undermining behaviour, you should be presenting a united front so your DD understands that your DH is a parental figure.

this will have given her the message that she is on an equal footing with your DH and that she doesn’t have to listen to him

Why do you have the disruptive home split that you do?

I'm not a huge fan of week on week off but half a week each? She's constantly back and forth

I assume you live very close?

See you've answered that.

How happy is she at her dad's?

I think you need to arrange support for your DD as soon as possible. She has suspected autism, has a hugely disruptive schedule, and lives with a man who doesn't respect her boundaries with the play fighting and being in and out of her bedroom.

My thoughts would be for your husband to just back off. A cheerful hello in the morning and a genuine smile. Let her come to him. Stop with the goodnights a from him,she may well start saying goodnight to him. It all sounds like he is pushing himself in her a bit.To be honest, a lot of step parents detest the children they live with and only tolerate as they love their partner. I've seen this and it's really sad.Hopefully your husband genuinely likes and loves her.
Could your ex have your daughter at weekends and in the holidays, to stop all this coming and going? Really worth giving it a go.

Consequences are bullshit especially for an autistic child. The emotion is spent and a transactional ‘because I’ll lose a toy’ isn’t the reason you don’t want her behaving this way. ‘Because it’s wrong to hurt people I love’ is the reason she needs to understand. That is something that can be taught with social stories and discussion but only when calm and not upset.
I agree very much that she should have her own space. She is showing an insecure attachment style - is not bonded with her step dad and has an insecure bond with you. This needs therapy I reckon.

in the meantime: She must have clear boundaries (no playfighting, no kicking, no shouting), it’s too nuanced to say ‘no rudeness’ you have to be super clear: please and thank you to step dad, no raised voices to step dad. You have high expectations of behaviour and high support in place. The support is: you notice her triggers (space, bedtime, being away from your house) and you take proactive steps to mitigate the effect.
if this fails and she shouts or hits you remove your husband and deescalate by staying very calm. Do not talk or reason with her. Stay completely level and repeat that you do not hit. This is not to say it’s ok to hit - but a consequence won’t solve this. you need to model appropriate behaviour by immediately removing him from the situation and not shouting or hitting back. He is not a punchbag.

I am sorry why aoukx

I am sorry why would he want to play fight her that’s so weird. And she doesn’t want to be hugged or touched by him that’s totally her right. I was your DD and got accused of being aggressive and the naughty child. And guess why my step dad was abusing me.

to be honest that would make your lives more bearable with the way she is behaving at the moment! What a disrespectful little so and so. Teenage years care going to be fun. Sounds like you are putting up with way more than you should be. I hope her little sisters don't pick up on her foul habits and copy her.

This. She’s autistic and your DH from age 2 was “playfighting” with her. She now thinks fighting is ok, because it is all part of play. Telling her it’s unacceptable when she does it to her younger siblings but it was totally ok when your DH did to her at age 2 is just confusing her.

He should not have forced touching her through play fighting either. You knew she had sensory issues with being touched which play fighting is full of and yet you encouraged it.

Of course she is upset and refuses to respect your DH and is rude to you. You should have let her have the bodily autonomy to decide when to be touched.

Finally, she is 8. This is your and your DH’s mess you two need to sort it out. You can’t put this on a child to sort out. Which is why I agree with the family therapy suggestion as well.

As the stepparent in a similar dynamic I can say for sure it is YOUR responsibility to deal with your child’s feelings here. You need to focus your attention on her and remove her need to be parented in any way by your DH. He cannot parent a child who does not see him as a parent and if you do not want to lose your marriage your job is to take 100% of the responsibility for your child while she is in your care. Your DH is not being cruel, he simply cannot do anything other than treat her as he would another child in his home - but here you have induced the weird expectation in both of them that somehow this relationship needs to be parental and it absolutely cannot be if DD does not accept him as a parent. Bottom line is step up or he will overall end your marriage.

I’ve not seen anything about her not using his nickname. My son is autistic, he calls me my real name not mum, always has done even though he heard other kids call me mum. In his head that’s my name so why would he call me something else, even at a young age he would get upset as “mum” isn’t my name and didn’t understand why others were trying to get him to call me mum.

I’m autistic and looking at it from your likely autistic DDs point of view, she needs consistency nd a calm, safe environment that she’s comfortable in. Instead she’s changing where she lives every couple of days, has two young siblings and is living with a man she doesn’t like very much and isn’t family to her. Added to that her room is not her safe space as you and DH enter it to access your clothes regularly. I think you need to see what you can change here to make things more consistent and comfortable for her.

The biggest question is why you've forced this man on your dd when she hates him.

He needs to grow the fuck up and realise that he chose to insert himself into a pre existing family when the small child already there had no say in it at all.

But it’s ok for her to be forced to live with someone she doesn’t like. Would you behave well if forced to do that?

This. Her life is terrible for ana autistic person. No wonder she is unable to contain the stress

I think you've made, and continue to make, some poor parenting and frankly life decisions.

Moving him in during Covid, bringing two more kids into the mix when you knew your DD struggled with your DH and suspected autism, the bedroom allocation in the new 'money pit' house, the disruptive 2.5 day house switching, the odd way you expect your DH, an adult, and your young DD to "sort things out between themselves"!

Poor child, this is absolutely not on her despite some awful comments on this thread. There has however been some great advice and I really hope you heed it - I'm sure you love your DD and are trying hard but just look at how you're handling it and change things.

How silly.

I agree. She needs to be able to have her own safe space asap for starters. She also needs firm and loving boundaries and to be allowed to retreat to her safe space whenever she needs to. As for telling her you don’t do anything with her siblings when they’re not around, this is giving her power over the family, especially when not doing much when she’s around. Children don’t do well when they think they’re responsible for adult decisions.

If she is neurodivergent, she could be the maturity of someone much younger, 18 months / 2 years younger. I really think you are going to need to get a handle on this before your dd goes to secondary school. So many neurodivergent kids come unstuck by secondary. It’s a big jump.

I'm autistic. Having my mum move a strange man in when I was a teen was very stressful and contributed to me ending up under CAMHS and leaving home whilst still at sixth form. Your DD is much younger, will have even less autonomy and even less ability to articulate her emotions. It will be worse for her than it was for me. I pity her.

@andIsaid assessed it well: "As such, she is under pressure to make sure that you, the adult, is ok with your guy, someone she does not want." She is a child and at some level she knows that the only reason why she gets to eat, drink, be alive is because you permit it. She's under huge pressure to pretend to be happy with a situation that she has no control over because her continued life depends on it. She's not happy about your DH moving in, she has to fake being OK as best as she can because, from her perspective, you could lock her in her room and starve her to death, and you put her in this position by moving a strange man in.

Respect her boundaries

• She doesn't like being touched by him, so he doesn't touch her unless she invites him too, ever, starting now. Playfighting is the worst thing he can do. It shows a total disrespect for her body and boundaries. It's also terrifiying to have a grown man who could kill you with his strength decide to start jabbing at you.
• His stuff leaves her room tomorrow. Two of these Vuku wardrobes and a Skugg hanging shelf in one of them should hold a day-to-day collection of his clothes. Any overspill, you retrieve it when he needs it.
• At eight, she may already be starting puberty. She needs privacy from unrelated men at this point and she won't be able to articulate that that's what she needs and why. It's literally not possible for me to sufficiently emphasise this point.

Understand that she's emotionally immature and at risk of sexual abuse

• An autistic child's emotional development can be delayed by up to one-third of her age.
• Alexithymia is very common in autism. It is the inability to identify and name one's own emotions. When she says that he "annoys" her, she might not mean "annoy" but she doesn't know a more suitable word to use. It took me until I was in my forties, with autism-specific coaching, to realise that when I feel angry, it's usually because I'm scared. Until my forties, with coaching. This girl's eight.
• The delay in emotional development makes her very vulnerable to sexual abuse, nearly three times more likely to be victimised than her peers with a 90% lifetime victimisation rate. She may already have been touched inappropriately, for example, at school, and not be able to articulate what has happened to her. I was her age when I was SAed for the first time, didn't tell a soul until I was 20. Even if she hasn't yet, she will instinctively know that men and boys who aren't daddy pose a risk to her. From her perspective, you've moved a potential molester into her house. This is why he starts completely and absolutely respecting her boundaries, as of now.
• When she lashes out, she's trying to tell you something that she might not have words for. When you ask her what's wrong, she still doesn't have the words and she feels put on the spot. That's why she said that you were annoying her. What might help is making cards with emojis and names of feelings on so that she can pick the most appropriate cards.
• Watch out for signs of her DF spousifying her. Spousification is when a separated parent treats the oldest child as a surrogate partner, dumping emotional crap on them that the child is too young to understand or cope with. Combined with DD1's autistic emotional immaturity, this is a toxic behaviour. It's confusing for the child because they feel trusted and valued by the parent oversharing in this way, but at the same time they cannot handle the material.

Reconsider how you treat the other DDs

• It strikes me as highly unfair that the other DDs get to sit on their hands whilst DD1 is with her DF. But, that conversation, about how she gets to do things with her daddy so her half-sisters should be allowed to do things with their daddy too, can only happen once DD1's boundaries are consistently respected and she feels safe in her home. If you don't deal with this, you'll have to deal with the younger girls resenting their half-sister down the line.

Ultimately, you made a huge mistake moving this man in, but it's done and there are half-siblings now, so you get to somehow deal with it. Good luck.

This. You've fucked up immensely and shouldn't have had more children with a man your daughter clearly disliked. She'd likely be better off at her dad's.

Unfortnately, the stepdad has been playfighting which is still hitting, pushing, kicking, grappling, just not super hard and while telling the 2yr old autistic victim that hates to be touched it’s just so much fun! And all in good humour! And go on, little tot, try and punch me back or hit me with that ball.

It’s actually traumatising for an autistic child to playfight when they have sensory issues with being touched. It’s the opposite of bonding.

Autistic child is now 8 and is trying to “fit in” with the family by repeating what she was shown was normal behaviour by her step dad. Step dad showed her step dad and the kids all playfight. She thinks playfighting is how you bond with little children. But when she tries to playfight with the DH or her younger siblings, she is being told she is violent and is then punished for what her step dad was encouraged to do to bond with her.

The kid is confused and upset over how fighting is play but only when her step dad was doing it to her. I’m not surprised she is suspicious of and actively resents her stepdad.

I think this is so wise, it is worth reposting. As the parent of a dd with asd i think @sprigatito has it spot on.

My mum was so so shocked when I started hitting her. Never mind that she and dad had both hit me from an early age. They called it "smacking". Model the behaviour you want, because autistic kids do not comprehend the idea of rules not applying to everyone equally.