My DH and DD don't get on and it's hurting our family

[firelandmumma]

NC for this, long time MN-er!

For context: DD is 8.5 and I split with her dad when she was a baby. We ended things very amicably and have a brilliant co-parenting relationship, we are close friends, consult each other on all parenting decisions. We have her each half the week - 2.5 days here, 2.5 days at his, alternate weekends. Have done this since she was about 2. She has great relationships with me and her dad and apart from general sassiness and boundary testing, I'd say we are close.

Have long suspected DD is autistic and she is on the waiting list for assessment. Won't go into all the symptoms but one important one is that she is not a touchy person at all. The only people she will touch at all are me, her dad and one grandparent. She doesn't hug or hold hands, would absolutely never kiss any other relative and never has, even those she's very close to.

I met DH when she was 2y 10m old. We took things slowly initially and then he moved in during one of the covid lockdowns. I think he found it unusual even after we'd been together a few years when DD would never give him a bedtime hug or let him read to her etc, but never really questioned it and didn't try to force it. He tried to bond by playing games and play fighting and doing other funny things. As she got older, these behaviors heightened. She refused to let him take her to school (although we have moved past this now) and says 'i just want mummy'. For a while I pandered to it but it seemed to make it worse. Won't drink a drink he's made her, won't let him even pass her things.

Fast forward to today. She's 8.5, has two little sisters aged 3 and 1.

Whenever DD8 is her, she argues with DH non stop. It's just constant. She refuses to call him by his nickname (which is his established name, think Sam and Samuel) and only calls him by his full name which he hates. She speaks to him in this rude arrogant tone. If he speaks to her 'have you had a good day at school DD8?' she either completely blanks him or says 'yes I have, mummy'. At night time we will go to say good night to her and she goes 'night love you mummy' and he will say 'night DD8' - again, she blanks him. Sometimes if I prompt her, she will then go 'oh, night' to him.

Recently the behaviours have intensified and she's started hitting him, which her sisters have started copying. We are not a violent family at all, aside from play fighting and messing about. Earlier, DH asked DD to please move out of the way as he was trying to clean her room up. She replied 'no' and he said 'DD, I need to sort this stuff, and I can't if you're there' to which she just turned around and tried to kick him. He then walked into me and said he's done, she's a brat and he can't deal with it anymore.

Little 2 asleep so I have come into the bathroom, locked the door and told them I'm not speaking to either of them until they grow up and sort it out because it's upsetting me.

This is daily for YEARS. I just don't know what to do.

Obviously I've had many, many conversations with DD about this and why she doesn't like him, she just says 'i just don't he's DD3/1's dad not mine' or 'i don't know' or 'he's annoying'.

On occasions they're alone together when I've sent them on bonding exercises, they've actually got a long really well, especially if they do sports. But it's so short lived and usually ends the moment I'm back in the room.

Has anyone, anyone experienced this and have any advice?

I love my DH. I love my DD8. I'm worried about the impact on my other DDs and the family as a whole.

She may have Autism but is there any excuse for being rude and disrespectful. Her behaviour towards him is shocking. She sounds a real brat and the behaviour will get worse unless checked. She doesn’t have to like her step dad but she has to be civil to him at least.

Seek support from a family therapist. Your daughter is probably not feeling anchored/grounded which is resulting in such behaviours. She is trying to communicate something to you but you are not hearing it. Trying to impose “consequences” is not going to help and is probably making things worse:

This, but thread will be full of “he’s a man he’s guilty of something, you dds needs must be paramount, if she’s not happy you need to divorce, your younger children aren’t as important “

But it's so short lived and usually ends the moment I'm back in the room.

It does sound like she always wants your attention, esp if they get on ok when you are not around. Perhaps there is a way to get to the root of this?

At her dads house she has 100% of his attention, at yours it's shared.

hope you are feeling better now.

your dd sounds like a spoiled entitled brat who controls everything.

i understand you want to make her happy etc with the situation with her dad however I think you’ve gone too much the other way and she’s controlling a lot of the home and situations - i think she sees you as easy to control and i expect she struggles to control your dh.

To know she can ;
*act up and then none of the family get to go out
*treat DH rudely for days/ weeks/ years with no real consequences
*go to her dads knowing no one will ‘go out and have fun’
Creates a vile child.

If she treats teachers like this then maybe it’s something she genuinely cannot express but if DH is the only one then she’s being a brat.

This is aside from DH causing her harm in any way.

I’m sorry but leaving an important conversation at a very crucial point because your bath was ready is completely wrong. You should have continued the discussion and tried to get to the root of the issue and talked it through thoroughly. By leaving to have a bath you put your needs ahead of your daughter’s and then just shutting her in the room with her stepdad and telling them to “sort it out” was
completely counter-productive.

My daughter is autistic. I think the bouncing around every couple of days is really problematic and likely to get more so the older she gets. As you have an amicable coparenting relationship I’d start that conversation. Stop your husband touching her as play (my daughter hates that too) and sort out the bedroom so she has a safe space. There must be a way to give her a space of her own even if it’s a smaller room or less convenient - it’s so important for autistic children in particular (or at least for my autistic child). My daughter would 100% prefer her own small room to a shared larger space.

There have been a lot of changes for her and I’m guessing it feels really overwhelming. She shouldn’t be allowed to be rude, but in the absence of an owned space for her I’m not sure what to suggest - my daughter often needs a break so she’d go to her room and re regulate. At bare minimum I’d keep him out of her space while she’s at yours.

agree with many that you have a lot going on here so if you can access some sort of family therapy it could be quite useful.

Not one person has said the younger children aren’t important. The problem is that the older child wasn’t prioritised even when she was the only child and signalling clearly that she wasn’t comfortable with this man and didn’t want to live with him. Now there are three children living in a conflict zone because of the decision to ignore that reality. I can’t see a way forward here other than therapy for the whole family.

Sounds like she is used to getting her own way, and doesn’t like it when she doesn’t. Why don’t you go out with the other 2 when she is at her dad’s? She will do stuff with him that her sisters obviously won’t, so what is wrong with them doing stuff with you and your DH when she isn’t there?

It must be a huge stress factor moving between homes every 3rd night.

The op has said the younger children aren’t allowed any treats or days out if eldest isn’t there, and when she is, the family can only do what she wants. If that’s not saying they’re not as important as her, what is?

OP she sounds like a spoiled brat who you've indulged, and as a result have quite the little madam.

There need to be consequences for her actions. No iPad, no TV, timeouts until she realises that her acting so disgustingly has consequences.

Exactly this.

She also said the other children aren’t bothered about those things yet, because they are toddlers.

I think you are better asking on a board or FB group with other parents who have autistic children as a lot of the replies here just don’t apply. You can’t punish and shame (and that includes taking away toys and iPads) behaviour out of her. It doesn’t work to any child, let alone a ND one.
your daughter is communicating with you
both. You need to listen.

That’s far too much talking for an 8 year old. You need to quickly and clearly communicate that disrespect and violence is not ok and save the chat for another time. If she’s heightened in the moment she won’t hear you or be able to reason.

What worked with my DD going through a hitting state was really praising her when she was doing well so she connected attention from us with positive things. Each and every time she lashed out she was told clearly to stop and was removed from the situation to cool down. Depending on circumstances that might be reading in her room, jumping on her trampoline, having a bath but something that changed her physical state. Then we’d have a short (and I mean short) chat about what happened and the different choices she could make next time. I’d also set out the consequences for her behaviour and she would be expected to apologise. In your case it needs to be you dealing with it from start to finish so she sees you and your DH as a team.

You’ve brought a man into her life pretty quickly after separating from her dad, then had another child quickly. You need to accept that’s had an impact on her and find a way to help her communicate with you. And you need to hear her say how unhappy she is - without over compensating. At the moment she has far too much power for an 8 year old, take back control, agree basic house rules and apply them consistently but give her space to speak about how she’s feeling.

I agree with this as well.
She’s been through a lot in a very short space of time some of which was during the madness of Covid when normal social interaction disappeared plus she spend her days going between houses which must be extremely destabilising.
I’m an adult & for nearly 18mths work took me away on a weekly basis & I didn’t enjoy it. I’d settle into the hotel then go home & settle there then back to another hotel. It was unpleasant, I didn’t knowing if I was coming or going at times but I’d chosen to do it not being told ‘well this is your routine so get used to it’.
I can’t see a way forward in this, maybe family therapy, but she’s being antagonistic for a pretty good reason.

This poor child, she's travelling between two homes with different lifestyles every 2.5 days AND alternate weekends. This cannot be in her best interest. Her mum got together with a man she doesn't like and had 2 dc. This is a massive thing. She obviously feels her position in the OPs household is insecure.
OP stop sending them on "bonding exercises", you need to have time alone with her. If the doesn't like him, fine, but being rude/violent is completely unacceptable.

Does she want him to leave? What is it she wants? Does she want to live more with you or more with her dad?
I think her life sounds really stressful for an autistic kid. She's had a lot of change. She now has to share her mums attention with a man and two new siblings, and they all get to live with you full time. She must feel so conflicted and mixed up. I'm glad she's not upset about her siblings. That's good.

I think she needs someone to talk to about her feelings that isn't involved. I'd ask her school if there was any counselling she could access. I also think you need to be ready to hear what she says. She doesn't like him. You can't punish that out of a kid.
I'm not surprised your partner finds it hurtful. Is her dad winding her up

I’d say reacting and having consequences would only fuel and escalate this.

I have experience of my autistic brother treating (our bio dad) like this. We went to family therapy and they told my very kind and calm dad to be much firmer. Made things so much worse. As an adult my brorher has a very respectful bond with our dad.

Either reading some Naomi fisher or contacting her for a 1:1 I think would be very helpful to you.

naomifisher.co.uk/about/#:~:text=Dr%20Naomi%20Fisher%20is%20a,and%20alternative%20ways%20to%20learn.

I’m normally on the side of the child rather than step-parent but tbh I think it sounds like your DH is a saint. If a step-mum posted that her DSD was hitting her and there were no consequences she’d be told to leave immediately. Violence against DH isn’t okay just cos he’s a bloke.

It is also completely ridiculous that you’ve given DD the biggest bedroom. Just no. The adults get the bigger bedroom cos there’s two of you. It is also better given that the storage is in that room because you won’t feel your space is invaded if your DC need access to the room. I’d change that set up immediately, and tell DD it is so that she has her own private space. Could you give DD your current room so when you swap your double for her single there will be space for a desk and wardrobe?

Your younger DC might not know it now but they absolutely shouldn’t have the fun in their lives curtailed to avoid upsetting DD. I’d save big-ticket days out (eg theme parks) for when you’re all together as a family, but I’d start now gently introducing the idea that you can have nice days too. With constant reassurance that it’d be even nicer if DD were there, but she loves to see her dad too.

Ultimately, I think you’ve clearly tried everything to ensure DD feels loved and wanted. But this has backfired a little cos she’s now used to being pandered to and none of you have good strategies for how to manage her being upset and she probably has very little resilience. This is likely to be something you’re going to have to work on slowly for years.

Finally, I don’t think the constant swapping homes is good for children. It is fairer for adults, definitely. But not great for an 8yo who really needs consistency.

Yeh I think she's been through a lot, you've met and moved your DH in very quickly, and then had another baby shortly afterwards. Now you, DH and her sisters are together as a family all the time and she's moved from pillar to post every week, when she is 'home' she doesn't have her own space, and she has potential autism on top. I don't think it's hard to see why she might be reacting badly!

Loads of the comments here are really helpful, and I’ve not got a lot to add, except that if she and stepdad have ‘bonded’ over playfighting, her hitting him will seem an extension of this, and hard to understand why one type is ok, the other not. You don’t know that she always felt it was ‘playful’, so a confusing dynamic has been established. She may also see her younger sisters hitting him as funny, because it’s ‘playfighting’.

She’s 8 - she can’t grow up and behave like an adult, it’s the two adults that actually need to do this!

You need to get a clothes rail for your room and give her privacy and own space. It doesn’t sound like a bedroom at all, and might make her feel it’s all a bit temporary.

The frequent moving between you and her dad must be exhausting and she’s having to re-establish her relationship with step dad each time. By the time this is done, it’s time to go to dads again. There’s no real time to properly build on things. If you and ex can’t do one full week at a time could you look at 2 full weeks at a time? Poor girl must be physically and emotionally exhausted which will lead to this kind of behaviour.

Send her to her room. Every time. Stop the long waffly conversations - she’s getting your attention which is what she wants. It rewards her for unpleasant behaviour. She gets your time and attention when she’s pleasant.

Make it clear that the same will apply to her siblings and ignore the whinging which is designed to make you feel bad and manipulate you into giving ground.

It's difficult to understand why you have chosen a man she doesn't like or bond with to move in, marry, and have further children with. In an incredibly short period of time, too. Add to that the fact that the pandemic and lockdowns happened at such a critical point in her development. And on top of that the undiagnosed suspected autism. What were you expecting? That she would just quietly deal with all of this inwardly? Personally I think you're getting off incredibly lightly behaviour-wise considering all she's been through and continues to go through.

Is her suspected autism being addressed at all? Does she have professional support? Is she on a waiting list to be assessed?