My DH and DD don't get on and it's hurting our family

[firelandmumma]

NC for this, long time MN-er!

For context: DD is 8.5 and I split with her dad when she was a baby. We ended things very amicably and have a brilliant co-parenting relationship, we are close friends, consult each other on all parenting decisions. We have her each half the week - 2.5 days here, 2.5 days at his, alternate weekends. Have done this since she was about 2. She has great relationships with me and her dad and apart from general sassiness and boundary testing, I'd say we are close.

Have long suspected DD is autistic and she is on the waiting list for assessment. Won't go into all the symptoms but one important one is that she is not a touchy person at all. The only people she will touch at all are me, her dad and one grandparent. She doesn't hug or hold hands, would absolutely never kiss any other relative and never has, even those she's very close to.

I met DH when she was 2y 10m old. We took things slowly initially and then he moved in during one of the covid lockdowns. I think he found it unusual even after we'd been together a few years when DD would never give him a bedtime hug or let him read to her etc, but never really questioned it and didn't try to force it. He tried to bond by playing games and play fighting and doing other funny things. As she got older, these behaviors heightened. She refused to let him take her to school (although we have moved past this now) and says 'i just want mummy'. For a while I pandered to it but it seemed to make it worse. Won't drink a drink he's made her, won't let him even pass her things.

Fast forward to today. She's 8.5, has two little sisters aged 3 and 1.

Whenever DD8 is her, she argues with DH non stop. It's just constant. She refuses to call him by his nickname (which is his established name, think Sam and Samuel) and only calls him by his full name which he hates. She speaks to him in this rude arrogant tone. If he speaks to her 'have you had a good day at school DD8?' she either completely blanks him or says 'yes I have, mummy'. At night time we will go to say good night to her and she goes 'night love you mummy' and he will say 'night DD8' - again, she blanks him. Sometimes if I prompt her, she will then go 'oh, night' to him.

Recently the behaviours have intensified and she's started hitting him, which her sisters have started copying. We are not a violent family at all, aside from play fighting and messing about. Earlier, DH asked DD to please move out of the way as he was trying to clean her room up. She replied 'no' and he said 'DD, I need to sort this stuff, and I can't if you're there' to which she just turned around and tried to kick him. He then walked into me and said he's done, she's a brat and he can't deal with it anymore.

Little 2 asleep so I have come into the bathroom, locked the door and told them I'm not speaking to either of them until they grow up and sort it out because it's upsetting me.

This is daily for YEARS. I just don't know what to do.

Obviously I've had many, many conversations with DD about this and why she doesn't like him, she just says 'i just don't he's DD3/1's dad not mine' or 'i don't know' or 'he's annoying'.

On occasions they're alone together when I've sent them on bonding exercises, they've actually got a long really well, especially if they do sports. But it's so short lived and usually ends the moment I'm back in the room.

Has anyone, anyone experienced this and have any advice?

I love my DH. I love my DD8. I'm worried about the impact on my other DDs and the family as a whole.

You need to find some other solution for your clothes and stop him invading your daughter's personal space.

It’s complex being a step child and going between 2 houses, even if you are greatly loved in both. Feelings of jealousy, of feeling like you are betraying the other parent, fear of missing out, fear of not being quite one or the other, it’s a lot of complex emotions. Sounds like she needs long term counselling to reassure her that all these emotions are healthy and natural and most importantly to give her the tools on how to deal with them, and speak to your local family centre or school for a link worker to work with your family.

So she lives with a man she has never bonded with and doesn’t like, and she has no safe space away from him at your house because her room doubles as clothing storage for you/him. Add that to the 2.5 day split and the stress of masking/coping generally as a school aged autistic child, and you have a little girl with a really difficult set of demands on her. That’s why she’s exploding. She’s distressed.

Appreciate the replies so far thank you. Lots to consider. I haven't been able to put all the detail in the OP but I have really tried to make things work for a long time. I honestly don't think DD would like any other man any more than him. Her dad has had a few girlfriends, she knew one of them, but no one currently. No other kids on his side. I do know it's a big contrast between being in his quiet house to our chaotic one.

I probably don't paint our family in the best light here and make DD sound miserable all the time. She really isn't. She's been happily playing with her sisters all evening til they went to bed. And when I got out of the bath DD and DH were both in her room, door open, him finishing up with the clothes and her organising her desk. DD then came in to our bedroom and asked if we could do Christmas cards. We sat writing Christmas cards and then DH came in and she happily showed him a snowflake she'd drawn, which he said was great.

Thinking about it. They can, and do, get on, it's more she is rude to him in front of me/around me to get my attention, maybe? They're much better if I'm just not there.

If she doesn't feel prioritised, I just don't know how to physically spend more time with her. I tell her always that she and her sisters are my biggest priority in life. They go to bed at 7ish and I always spend 7-8pm with her doing something by herself - homework, reading, crafts, a bit of TV, so she does get 1:1 time with me.

I'd love to have her here with us all the time, of course I would, and I do think maybe things would be a little better if her life was more consistent and not all the moving about but it's the only way we can do it where she sees us fairly. Her dad is a good dad to her. Although he is neurodivergent too and hard to live with in his own ways. We can't do week on week off due to my and her dad's jobs.

Do you really never go on days out or do anything when she’s not there? What if she’s having a really lovely day out with her dad- do her sisters not get to have a day out with theirs because she’s not there?

I think she’s obviously got a lot of big feelings but she also does sound to me like she very much rules the roost as everyone is very conscious of upsetting her. It’s ok not to like someone but it’s not ok to be rude and disrespectful and physically violent.

i agree with other about stopping the play fighting if she doesn’t like touch.

If I was your DH, I would be very unimpressed at you blaming me for it. It doesn’t sound like he’s doing anything wrong. It’s your daughter. Your DH must be feeling very frustrated by this situation. I would probably have left if I was him and if it’s been years of this.

I think you do need to find a way to discipline her better - I’ll be honest I don’t know what to suggest. Maybe you need to speak to her father and get him involved as well. she’s going to become worse Without proper discipline. She sounds like the type that will come up with wild accusations against him. I don’t mean that to offend you, but she’s 8 years old and trying to be physically abusive to him Which is wild.

Why does she get the biggest room with all the storage?! Are you frightened of her not coming if she’s not treated as the most important person in the family?

Apart from the park or playdates with 3yo nursery friends, no. 1 and 3 year old are just as happy going for a walk or the shops. Days out are so expensive now that if we're doing it it's a big deal and DD8 would be coming with us. But if we do go we try to go to places that are friendly for her needs - national trusts or museums.

I can imagine as the little two get older it may be more of a thing. Being 1 and 3 they aren't yet bothered about cinema, theme parks etc obviously as they get older they may be and that will be a conversation in the future I guess.

I have an autistic child.

things that might help:

having her own space that she can retreat to if needed

a no hitting rule that applies to everyone. At all times.

my child was not really able to cope emotionally with play fighting and it really does legitimise hitting in their minds. A blanket no hitting is much much simpler and also stops accusations of unfairness.

you may find it helpful to write down house rules and possibly try to agree them with your ex so there is a level of consistency there.

You guess? Why wouldn’t it be a definite?

Definitely move your / his clothes out of her room. She needs a space that is totally her own - and as PP have said you need to be minimising the chances that conflicts happen.

Make a list of things you notice that trigger her / what was happened every time there was an argument - see if you can see any patterns - take steps to remove and avoid the common triggers.

To be honest I guess I am a little bit. I'm worried in the future she will make the choice to live with Dad full time. He has a lot more disposable income than us and she pretty much gets what she wants at his whereas at ours has to share. I guess I hoped her getting a big bedroom might be nice for her when she's a bit older.

We do plan on sorting out the wardrobe situation shortly so she completely has her own space. The wardrobes in our room are literally hanging off broken plaster on the wall (unaware when buying nightmare moneypit house!) so unusable at this point. Hoping to demolish and replace in the new year. We wanted to make sure the children got the good bedrooms but it does mean our room is basically a bed in a room and our stuff is spread over the other rooms for now.

It's a bit ridiculous saying you're not talking to any of them. The child is a child. They have absolutely no control over their life. You need to sort this out, you created the problem.

Thank you, that is why I'm on here asking for advice on how to try and sort it out and make changes.

If you read any of my follow ups, this did follow a conversation I attempted to have with her where she basically shouted at me. I am drained with the arguing and snapped. I appreciate I said the wrong thing.

Autism is a huge factor here, I would look up pda profile. It is hugely challenging but there are strategies you can use.

I did read your follow ups. I'm sorry, I don't know how you can make it better. I understand it must be draining. I just feel sorry for the children in these situations. If your child feels happier with their Dad then maybe that's best for them.

it’s been going on for YEARS and yet you have a 3 & 1 year old?

I think moving a new man in during lockdown must have been hard for her. There she was, isolated with you, and suddenly she has to share you full-time with a relative stranger, who she neither chose nor wanted. That's probably the root of it all. She's just trying to gain some control of a situation over which she has had no control or choice in at all.

It sounds as though you're tip toeing around your daughter and there are zero consequences for her actions. Before you say that there are consequences, they clearly are not effective! This has been going on for years and you've allowed it to escalate into learned and acceptable behaviour that now her siblings think its normal and funny?!
She would absolutely not be allowed to get away with treating a teacher with such disrespect and violence at school. She would be expelled.
You need to step up and parent immediately otherwise it sounds as though marriage number 2 will be ending soon and rightly so!

Agreed.

DH is your guy not her guy.

As such, she is under pressure to make sure that you, the adult, is ok with your guy, someone she does not want.

You should really dwell with that a minute or two.

Every time she lashes out at him she is telling you something - but I am not sure you want to listen.

2.5 days at home is a terrible idea. Doing it as a younger child might have been fine as their sense of time is different. You and ex dh, along with dd should change that. It should be framed as "I don't get enough of you and df does not get enough of you so how about ..." She should know that you both want her.

DH needs to move all clothes, and hence his "right" to be in her room. If you need the wardrobe space do some witchcraft somewhere else, change out who sleeps where. At eight, she needs the private space away from the man who annoys her most of time. Again, discuss as - "not great that we come in and out of your room - how about..." - working for her, looking after her, seeing her.

Finally, asking an exploding eight year old to not explode, and talk instead is quite the demand. Show her how to do a managed explosion, letting most of it out so that she can talk - the old shout into a pillow, or throw cuddly toys or or or. You two could have fun designing explosion stations around the house.

Keep in mind that we tell children what not to do without giving an ideas of what to do instead.

I may sound really harsh but I do not mean to. You sound lovely. The situation sounds hard.

But it will get much worse if you don't learn the unspoken language of your 8 year old daughter.

She is SO young.

Have a look at some pictures of you at 8 - it will help you remember just how small they are, how far they have come and how far they have to go.

Bloody hell - that was long. Sorry!

Just a small suggestion- next time your dh needs/wants to sort out clothes in your DD’s room - can he do it on one of the days she is with her dad? I wholeheartedly believe bedrooms should be a safe space for all kids and if she didn’t want him in there he should have respected that.

This seems awfully harsh to me.

The child is trying to communicate in, what are for her, very trying circumstances.

The mum is trying to create a happy home for everyone but, sensing need in her child is trying not to be too punitive.

The dh needs sorting out in my opinion. It sounds like he is taking offense and trying to dominate the child into liking him. He needs to have a chat with his ego.

I mean, part of the reason having children is good for humanity is because it gives all of our egos a good bashing.

I know that I leave mine at the front door when I come home. 😀

Could you just swap bedrooms so you have the one with all the wardrobes.

I feel a bit sorry for dh, as you allow your child to be rude and violent towards him. Can’t be pleasant for him. This will only get worst as she gets older.