My DH and DD don't get on and it's hurting our family

[firelandmumma]

NC for this, long time MN-er!

For context: DD is 8.5 and I split with her dad when she was a baby. We ended things very amicably and have a brilliant co-parenting relationship, we are close friends, consult each other on all parenting decisions. We have her each half the week - 2.5 days here, 2.5 days at his, alternate weekends. Have done this since she was about 2. She has great relationships with me and her dad and apart from general sassiness and boundary testing, I'd say we are close.

Have long suspected DD is autistic and she is on the waiting list for assessment. Won't go into all the symptoms but one important one is that she is not a touchy person at all. The only people she will touch at all are me, her dad and one grandparent. She doesn't hug or hold hands, would absolutely never kiss any other relative and never has, even those she's very close to.

I met DH when she was 2y 10m old. We took things slowly initially and then he moved in during one of the covid lockdowns. I think he found it unusual even after we'd been together a few years when DD would never give him a bedtime hug or let him read to her etc, but never really questioned it and didn't try to force it. He tried to bond by playing games and play fighting and doing other funny things. As she got older, these behaviors heightened. She refused to let him take her to school (although we have moved past this now) and says 'i just want mummy'. For a while I pandered to it but it seemed to make it worse. Won't drink a drink he's made her, won't let him even pass her things.

Fast forward to today. She's 8.5, has two little sisters aged 3 and 1.

Whenever DD8 is her, she argues with DH non stop. It's just constant. She refuses to call him by his nickname (which is his established name, think Sam and Samuel) and only calls him by his full name which he hates. She speaks to him in this rude arrogant tone. If he speaks to her 'have you had a good day at school DD8?' she either completely blanks him or says 'yes I have, mummy'. At night time we will go to say good night to her and she goes 'night love you mummy' and he will say 'night DD8' - again, she blanks him. Sometimes if I prompt her, she will then go 'oh, night' to him.

Recently the behaviours have intensified and she's started hitting him, which her sisters have started copying. We are not a violent family at all, aside from play fighting and messing about. Earlier, DH asked DD to please move out of the way as he was trying to clean her room up. She replied 'no' and he said 'DD, I need to sort this stuff, and I can't if you're there' to which she just turned around and tried to kick him. He then walked into me and said he's done, she's a brat and he can't deal with it anymore.

Little 2 asleep so I have come into the bathroom, locked the door and told them I'm not speaking to either of them until they grow up and sort it out because it's upsetting me.

This is daily for YEARS. I just don't know what to do.

Obviously I've had many, many conversations with DD about this and why she doesn't like him, she just says 'i just don't he's DD3/1's dad not mine' or 'i don't know' or 'he's annoying'.

On occasions they're alone together when I've sent them on bonding exercises, they've actually got a long really well, especially if they do sports. But it's so short lived and usually ends the moment I'm back in the room.

Has anyone, anyone experienced this and have any advice?

I love my DH. I love my DD8. I'm worried about the impact on my other DDs and the family as a whole.

But this isn't just another adult, I am sure OPs DD would have accepted a drink from her grandma or uncle or whoever, she doesn't want to accept a drink from a man that she doesn't trust and who is continually trying to force her to interact with him. She is communicating her discomfort in the only way she can.

1. For autistic people, rules are absolute. They apply or they don't.
2. The child doesn't want that adult to make the drink for a reason. The child might distrust the adult, or the child might not want to feel any kind of debt or obligation to that adult. Steamrollering that child's boundaries doesn't take the reasons for the boundaries away.
3. There's no such thing as "common sense". "Common" means something that everyone has, like "common grazing land". There is no "sense", no way of thinking, that everyone has.

Re point two: I wouldn't consume drinks made by one of my mother's exes. I didn't feel safe around him and couldn't articulate why. When mum found his searches for stepdaughter porn on the family computer, my instinctive distrust of him was vindicated.

I think you need to grow up, telling an 8 year old to grow up…!! Imagine being 8 and having to live with someone you’re not related to, who you don’t like. How sad.

I really agree with this.

OP as an adult your daughter would likely describe her childhood as chaotic and deeply unstable.

The early break up.
The new partner she never liked so quickly moved in.
New siblings.
Back and forth every couple of days between houses.
It reads as deeply chaotic and unstable.

One thing that I 100% believe is that children crave safety, stability and routine.

She has so little of the above.
I think if she could live with her father full-time, she might have a better chance of that.

Talk to him and her and try and make the choices that are in her best interests, while you have the chance.

You should not criticise your partner who sounds very patient with your eldest dad in front of her. From what you say she is the one causing the problems not him. She doesn't have to like him but she should show him basic respect. Every single time she refuses to say a simple goodnight or answer him I would tell her there will be a negative consequence. Also you should be able to go on a day out if she is with her Dad. Does her own Dad never take her out? If so your other 2 dd's won't get an equal amount of days out overall. It sounds like you have allowed your eldest DD to be exceptionally rude and get away with this for years. I'm surprised your DH has not threatened to leave by now.
No one expects your DD to hug or kiss her SD but she is vile to him for no apparent reason and little consequences.

She refuses to call him by his nickname (which is his established name, think Sam and Samuel) and only calls him by his full name which he hates.

Well, kindly, he needs to get a grip here. Autistic people can be extremely rigid thinkers and the name they are given is the name they are called. Nicknames are for people you are close to and using nicknames can feel awkward and painful.

We do quite a lot of removing her favourite toy or iPad, not going out to places because of behaviour

So you remove the things that regulate her behaviour in a bid to... regulate her behaviour?

Also we do reward charts for good behaviour

Every kid is different but my experience of autism is that delayed gratification does not work. A lot of behaviours are born out of dysregulation. Instant gratification works best, but so does not putting children in dysregulating scenarios.

The hitting isn't ok. I have a hitter. It has gotten better over the years but he wasn't always a hitter either. The thing that works best for us is saying if you hit me I will remove you from the situation and following through, whilst making sure the tools we need to keep DS regulated are in the place we remove him to, and having calming time just 1 on 1 after transitions such as after meals, after coming home from school, after being outside etc.

DD has the bedroom that has all the storage (3 massive built in wardrobes) so DH and I have our clothes stored in one of them for now. He was in there sorting loads of clothes out while I was sorting something else.

Well this layout isn't going to work. She doesn't have a safe space because the space isn't entirely hers and she has the unpredictability of people coming in when they want or need something.

Her entire life seems to have been upended and the common denominator here is that you have your new husband who isn't making her feel emotionally safe and 2 new children and now a new house that isn't meeting her needs. I feel sorry for your daughter and your husband but your husband is an adult and your daughter is 8 and neurodivergent and struggling.

I wonder if she feels very left out and “punishing” your DH is her way of expressing that. I have no doubt she loves her own Dad but spending 2.5 days with you then 2.5 days with her Dad must be incredibly confusing for her especially as she knows her siblings are with you all the time.

Also stop forcing her to interact with him. Even if it's saying goodnight.

I can't talk to my uncle, who visits every week. I can talk to my aunt and my cousins and their children, but I just can't get words out to a man that makes me feel so uncomfortable.

I was diagnosed with selective mutism this year and autism last year.

All my life I have been forced to say hello, goodbye, merry christmas, happy new year etc and talk in situations that make my throat feel like it's closing up, and watch my tone of voice when that is an extremely difficult thing for autistic people to do, especially when the language center of the brain shuts down! There is science behind it, it isn't being rude, although if you don't understand this then that's how you will perceive it.

She is so desperately uncomfortable with his presence and he needs to back off, not make it a big deal and stop taking it as a personal attack.

Every single time she refuses to say a simple goodnight or answer him

He was forced on her. She does not owe him words. She does not owe him anything.

This 100%. When people say children crave safety, stability and routine that goes x10 for autistic kids.

None of this was good for DD, the whole set up is a disaster for an autistic child, please don't take the advice of people that have no idea about parenting an autistic child and think you should be punishing this out of her. To be honest I think it will probably suit her far better to be living quietly, full time with her dad, but it will be hard to set that up now without her feeling completely rejected by you.

You know she doesn't like her step dad so why are you forcing him on her? He was your choice not hers and was moved in way too quickly. He needs to be staying out of her room at the very least. Your poor set up is also not her fault, if he needs something out the wardrobe then you get it, she deserves to have that space safe from people she doesn't like at least. Otherwise make sure nothing of his is in there or move her into the small room, it will probably be preferable to having to put up with her step dad just walking in and out as he pleases. He really needs to respect her space.

No one seems to have any understanding of DD's needs at all. Expecting her to sort out the issues you've caused OP is one of the strangest things I've ever read on here. She is an autistic child FGS. Your husband is no one to her, she's not interested in him and I feel really bad that she was forced to lived with him from such a young age when she clearly didn't like him.

All the issues are yours.

There seems to be two clear views on this situation.

1. Dc is a rude and violent child, who needs to be reprimanded on how she’s talks to dp.

2. Dc is autistic and not coping with living in two homes, recent family situation changes etc.

i think both elements are at play, and both need looking at.

Dc needs greater stability in her life, but the way she addresses dp needs addressing also.

Including some who claim to have ND children themselves 🙄

Unfortunately there are many, many ND children being brought up by parents who have no idea what to do with them, and no interest in educating themselves. They think they can neutralise their children’s needs by simply ordering them not to have any, and dominate/bully them into complying against their own nature. I know several such families.

I agree and within that time you also brought in two children to her life

this wasn’t slow it was 0-60 in 30 secs type speed

and now when it is all gone wrong you seem not to understand why

not only that it is so many mixed messages from how you are handling things that I suspect she doesn’t have a secure handle on your bond either but it is easier to question him

you need outside help and family therapy

I totally agree with this and feel very sorry indeed for your daughter.

OP you've had some really harsh replies here. I have an autistic DD with PDA profile and I can tell you, she would struggle with the transition every couple of days, I know this is her routine but her fear of missing out, challenges autistic children generally have is heightened as they get older. This manifests as 'you love the other children more than me'. Can you amend the co parenting arrangements? Even temporarily to see if it helps.

I think pp are right, the sooner you can give her a safe space to retreat the better. I've also had to get a psychologist as my DDs violence got worse with age, this was towards me - it's a work in progress but it was the small things that led to it, giving too many choices, not understanding that screaming at me would hurt my feelings etc. She's slowly working through it and I'm also learning triggers to ensure our peace is maintained.

It won't be your DH as a person, but he could be triggering her or it could be towards you but she doesn't want to hurt you so is doing it to him - she may not be aware of that though. Autistic girls are complicated beings.