Xenophobia, homophonic, transphobia

[spstchmu]

Are you gonna do anything about it? Like, i know the line is that shoving the madness in the feminism board means it's not transphobia. And I know it's been done to death but I'm sick of it. It's not acceptable. Xenophobia, racism and homophobia also increasing.
And no. I won't leave. This is the biggest forum of its kind and it needs to represent and respect us all. And care that it's not.

What I do know is that cis is a slur so please stop it.

Men who say they are women are just as much a threat to women and girls as any other men.

But then you know that.

Again, what evidence would you need to change your mind?

3 times as many men in prison who say they are women than don't, are there for sex based offences. Doesn't change your mind.

More likely to be murderers than murdered, doesn't change your mind.

Not one person has ever changed sex, doesn't change your mind.

So what would?

These people are in a bubble, and they don’t realise that while most people don’t spend time arguing on the internet about it, they certainly don’t share their fringe ideological beliefs that any man is a woman if he says he is. Because most people consider that absurd.

As you know, that is because of familiarity and ease of access. If you allow ALL males access to female only spaces, you increase the risk.

And you forget it's about privacy and dignity away from the male gaze. Not just safety.

And, we don't have 'close family members' in with us watching us get undressed. Your 'arguments' are weak, built on quicksand, easily demolished and we've heard them all before around 70,000 times. You are not at all original. We feminists have been guarding our gate for a long time, and we have the receipts and arguments. You're wasting your time. There is not one single 'argument' or 'whatabout' we cannot adeptly destroy.

We’ve done this silly whataboutery already on this thread.

Currently got a loaf proving, now off to throw some large wine goblets out of lovely smooth clay before baking said bread and picking some fresh veg for lunch.

It is bloody awesome.

Depends what sort of threat you mean. But 62% of transwomen prisoners are inside for sexual contact offences, vs 19% for non-trans men. So on the face of it a materially higher risk than the general male population.

Those with Kinefelter’s Syndrome are unambiguously male

I want to have lunch in the Dordogne. Instead I have the dentist and it looks like it’s going to piss down 😟.

Calling men 'men' is not 'overwhelming hatred'.

But calling men who know perfectly well they are men and who access women and girls in female spaces will result in calling them 'predatory' as that is exactly what these men are doing.

And we haven't even got into the mutilation and sterilisation of young people because of this ideology on here, but good on you for bringing it up. It is also another despicable aspect that the people who are into this ideology seem to completely ignore.

It’s just part of Doing Better. Things that rhyme are literal violence.

Yes, absolutely but I am choosing not to extrapolate those data to the wider group without stronger evidence. It’s enough for me without more compelling evidence of greater risk that overall their risk to women is seen as the same as other men. Which is the case until a genderist can demonstrate that there is some mechanism by which saying you are a woman makes a man pose less risk.

Yes, but... erm... (cough) they are either monoecious or dioecious. In other words, some plants carry either male or female parts, and some have both. Which complicates matters somewhat. 😂

<Is it too early in the morning for that sort of language?>

But the individual parts remain male or female ?

so the human equivalent would be males sperm and eggs ?

It also is easier to prey on women and girls when you can guilt them into ignoring their instincts. It’s particularly damaging when girls are told their discomfort and feelings of unease are less important than those of men and boys. When they aren’t brought up to have healthy boundaries.

It’s not good as a woman to believe everything men say to you.

I don't think it's fair to characterise gender critical concerns as being driven by hatred. Many of us distinguish very clearly between how we treat individuals and the importance of maintaining sex-based rights.Like you, I don't believe a person can literally change sex. That doesn't mean I think transgender people are inherently dangerous, nor does it mean they shouldn't be treated with dignity and respect. However, public policy has to be based on safeguarding and objective realities, not on assumptions about anyone's intentions.

Women's toilets, changing rooms, hospital wards and refuges were established because of biological sex, not because every man is a predator. The point of these spaces is to provide privacy, dignity and reassurance for women and girls. Once access is based on self-declared gender identity rather than sex, those boundaries inevitably change. Many women are uncomfortable with that, and their concerns deserve to be heard without being dismissed as prejudice.

There is a definite wariness around TRAs as their behaviour be it online or in real life is often littered with abusive behaviour, rape and death threats. Women, and it is almost always women, who have voiced their concerns have been bullied out of jobs, subject to distressing non transparent disciplinary procedures, had their personal details doxxed online and generally treated like shit. Anytime womens groups organise a meeting venues are threatened, events are disrupted and subject to direct action all the while being cheered on by Stonewall and their 'no debate' stance. Commentators then have the audacity to try and 'both sides' the debate., x

As for young people, I think there is more then enough evidence that serious caution is warranted. Adolescence is a period when many mental health conditions, autism, trauma and body-image issues emerge. That doesn't mean every young person questioning their gender is confused, but it does mean clinicians should be extremely careful before supporting medical interventions with lifelong consequences.Of course there will always be intemperate comments online, just as there are in any contentious debate. But I don't think it's accurate to portray the majority of gender-critical people on here as obsessively hateful. Most are ordinary women discussing safeguarding, fairness in sport, freedom of speech and the preservation of sex-based rights, issues that affect them directly. We should be able to say two things at once: transgender people deserve courtesy and protection from harassment, and women are entitled to advocate for sex-based rights and boundaries without automatically being labelled transphobic.

It doesn't matter what plants or fungi or bloody clown fish to make more plants, fungi or clown fish because humans are well human even if they identify as a fish they can't change sex, or indeed breathe under water.

The vast majority of men are not a threat to women but sufficient are that safeguarding is put in place to mitigate the risk. Transwomen are men so the same safeguarding protocols apply.

the vast majority of men prefer single sex spaces too - for themselves and for women.

they think it gives them dignity and privacy and want women to have the same.

I think men should be able to have single sex spaces for their privacy and dignity. Women have the safety aspect as well.

I guess I would feel safer in a space filled with men who would normally back single sex spaces than in a space with a man who insisted he had the right to be in a female space even though he was male

Which I guess is a sign of transphobia ? Fear of transgender ( males only )

I wouldn’t have the same fear for someone who had full surgery

I guess I am questioning how truly transgender someone is who hasn’t had full surgery ?

which is interesting as I don’t think surgery should be undertaken except as a last resort

Me too, regardless of whether that man had had surgery.

The majority of men pose no danger to women.
The majority of transwomen pose no danger to women.
Men and transwomen exhibit (at least) the same risk of offending.
For safeguarding purposes, we work on known risks at population level therefore men and transwomen are not permitted in womens single sex spaces because it's not possible to know which men/transwomen are the risky ones.
Good men and transwomen understand this and stay out of these spaces.

We also provide single sex spaces for the privacy and dignity of both men and women.

What's really sad is I wanted to write 'vast majority' in both the first two sentences and I just couldn't.🙁

I think its because those men are already not respecting boundaries. They know it makes some women uncomfortable but do it anyway.

Exactly. It’s a red flag. Read The Gift of Fear.