Concerns about racism

[PandoraSocks]

Hi there Mumsnet HQ

Many of us are concerned about the uptick of hatred, xenophobia and racism on the site over the past couple of weeks. Most of the bigotry is focused on asylum seekers. MNHQ will of course delete racism etc. if reported, but this has gone way beyond a few hateful posts.

Links below to three examples of threads which have descended into real nastiness.

Cheers.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/in_the_news/5385273-civil-unrest-whats-really-going-on?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5385914-do-you-believe-there-will-be-a-civil-war?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5386073-to-be-so-fed-up-amd-disheartened-with-all-the-xenophobia?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Was thinking same

Have I misunderstood the purpose of the Site Stuff board? I’m off to have a look and see if there’s anything that says what it’s for

Yes, I thought that.

I'm not sure if anyone has reported the individual posts that got deleted. They may have read those only and not the rest of the thread.

Tbh, while the posts that got deleted on here were not really adding value to the thread, they weren't particularly offensive in comparison to a lot of the bile that has been left to stand on some of the other threads. So yet again, I'm left puzzling over MN's moderation decisions.

ETA that I appreciate this probably sounds ungrateful, as MN were clearly trying to deal with a troll who was seeking to derail the thread. I appreciate the deletions, I just don't understand why other posts haven't been deleted as a higher priority.

I’ve had a quick dot around and all the other boards I landed on had an exclamation mark in a circle then a sentence explaining what the board is for. But there’s not one for Site Stuff. Maybe later I’ll post a thread asking why that is and if they can provide something.

Sorry. That’s a potential derail right there. I’m just not understanding if they’re around to delete posts, what moderation policy led them to do that and ergo what moderation policy is leading them to not join in. I reported @PandoraSocks opening post a couple of hours ago (don’t worry P, I clicked the ‘other’ button!) to ask if they were willing to come on but have heard nothing back.

I reported some posts.

I've reported a couple from earlier this morning . I got quick replies confirming they'd been deleted.

I disagree with your last sentence. Racism should absolutely be shut down (though not ignored).

No, it’s not about the way they speak. It’s about deliberate lies, repeated over and over, racist tropes and horrible attitudes (let people drown, for eg). Nothing to do with how those things are expressed, or about their feelings.

No. I want those who disagree with me to argue in good faith, not with lies and hate speech.
Edit: are you suggesting that everyone who isn’t a ‘leftie’ is a racist? Because I know a few Tories who aren’t who would have exactly the same response to the racism that the OP has.

This. Surely if they have good reasons for what they think they can do so without hatred and lies.

Edited as just seen deletions and realised why.

Same my local MP is a very traditional conservative. I disagree with him on lots of things. I’ve also had many civil conversations with him and he’s just as horrified by this stuff as I am (despite being a key euro-sceptic).

No I'm not suggesting that but I don't think there are many people that aren't left wing on this thread so I would feel uncomfortable posting on it, I would probably be called a bot or Tory HQ.

I don't get the whole "lefties" insult. Being against racism isn't a left or right issue.

What on earth makes you think that left wing people would object to Tories speaking out against racism?

I think you are right that most people on the thread at the moment are coming from a left wing perspective. Where you are wrong is interpreting that as them only wanting left wing ideas represented. The thread is to ask for racism and misinformation to be dealt with.
I think it’s a shame more right wing posters haven’t commented, because I know some on here who absolutely woukd agree with the OP. I’m slightly concerned that they are leaving the site because the right wing perspective is beginning to be identified with Reform and with racism and they don’t like it. Several I’ve had discussions with in the past seem to have vanished.

I would like to see that generalisations based on race OR culture be banned on the subboard. Culture is increasingly used as a substitute for race / ethnicity

culture is relevant but it’s clear that for example, that not all male afghans think that women are subhuman but I would accept that the taliaban and current power in Afghanistan does believe that. However most afghans coming to the UK are probably not those who happily support the current government. Yet all stand accused of being women haters in some recent threads. Now of course the average belief of the average Afghan coming to the UK may still be out of sync with the average Uk position but it’s not clear cut to me

we really do need the government to be tracking lots more data so any discussions can be evidence based

Also @Mavvera you don’t feel uncomfortable posting on it do you? Or if you do you’ve got over the discomfort and posted.

Absolutely. I imagine that there are an awful lot of people on the centre right who are totally alienated by the debate now.

I haven't given my views though just that it seems a bit of a left chatroom, I believe I'm right there. I can't even see my original post, probably been deleted

You haven’t been deleted. The deletion would show on my quotation of it if you had. Why would it be? What’s with the victim mentality? You’ve given your view that we are on,y upset because the racists are right wing. They are right wing, but not all right wingers are racists. It’s the racism we don’t like, not the political perspective.

I've also had the challenge on thread response, the challenge robustly message, usually followed by a "we have deleted several of your posts, keep this up and you will be banned".

Mumsnet hq need to work out which direction they want the site to go in, and then moderate accordingly.

Either delete and moderate properly, removing posts that are damaging to society Tommy small bollocks is great kind of things, or, they let the challenges stand. They can't tell you to challenge robustly, then remove you when you do, so if thats what they want, then posts need to stand.

Why don't you give us your views then? As a right-leaning person, you're more than welcome to come and stand with us in solidarity against racism and misinformation.

I would also ban personal attacks and the attribution of political alliance to any poster

the term “left wing” is thrown around like an insult , it’s clearly meant to imply something nasty /shut people down

what is it meant imply? lack of thought? Lack of original thought ? Lack of “real world living” (hint - there is only one world) out of touch ( who with? ) educated ( as an insult?!) rich?

Anyway, perhaps @MNHQ will come on and give their views.

Racism should never be given a platform. There's no place for it in civilised society.