State grammar schools compared with independent schools

[SkippyYourFriendEverTrue]

What are the most significant differences?

I am reading the Good Schools Guide and it is generally gushing about grammar schools and implies that you can get a £13k/year education for free. However I would have thought that class sizes would be larger at grammar schools, maybe other differences too.

I went to a state comp, there were 30 in my class, although I think that was partly because we were 'subsidising' the lower sets to have about 12 in the class.

DS is Y6 at prep school and can continue to Y8, around 15 in his class. We are concerned that he is probably quite vulnerable to bullying etc., although he hasn't that issue because the children at his prep school are all vair nice. Am a bit suspicious of state schools on this front, but that might not be fair.

It might all be irrelevant as we are in Surrey and no grammars here, but we are looking to move anyway was curious before committing to spend £100k on DS' secondary education (and then potentially the same again for DD).

Hmm, I see that it's basically impossible to get into a popular grammar school unless you live within a good radius of it when applying, so probably irrelevant anyway, although not perhaps for DD.

I think you would be surprised by class sizes in senior schools, they are not generally small in mainstream subjects like Maths and English in either sector and can be very small in either sector if it's a less popular subject.

Research disproves the notion that small class sizes are advantageous, especially for able pupils.

If its a case of putting that money into a pension or saving deposits for your DC's I would consider grammar if I were you.

I have had two boys at a top mixed state grammar. No bullying issues there, but daughter at all girls grammar did have bullying.

I have been reading some of the threads in this forum and I am now conscious that only looking for a secondary school in September of Y6 is incredibly slack and lazy.

Not sure we can get into a grammar school. DS would ace any maths test and is reasonable at the 'which funny shape comes next'-type questions, but would be crap at creative writing or comprehension, but I think geography (us being 15+ miles away from the nearest grammars, either Kingston, Sutton or Sluff) is a significant impediment to an application at most.

There is a quasi-private school I saw, Gordon's School, which looks like a private school and takes boarding (mainly from army children apparently - very expensive I believe, despite being state) and you have to buy a £1m house 10 yards from the front gate to get in as a day pupil, but again have failed on the pushiness front to do that.

We are looking at More House, Frensham (not sure if this one is too 'special' for DS), St George's, Weybridge, King Edward's Witley, and want to have a look at Box Hill also, it comes across as a bit second-rate though.

The Grammar tests take place any day now, don't they? afaik, any within reach of London work on competition in the test, rather than on a geographical catchment, and as such as known as 'super-selective' because competition is strong.

You need to look at individual schools. A good comp can deliver an education as good as a grammar - but the intake is more mixed and the statistics of the averages reflect that. A private school can deliver a mediocre education. A state school can be failing, a private school can be fabulous. Bullying can happen in any school....

Our GSs have already had the entrance exams!

If your DS' prep goes to 13, surely the boys do CE not 11+ anyway?

Some leave at 11 but obviously they don't encourage it.

Are you named after the beer, Bintang? Or just a shining star?

Wow- no-one ever knew what my name meant on here!

Impressed (or maybe you just frequent Bali?)

Both I suppose

bali? tidak.

I think it probably tastes better on the beach in Bali though. Have bought some in the UK once or twice but it's not worth it really.

(I wonder if 'rendang' is taken. Mmm.....)

Malasian or Indonesian then?

I assumed Aussie from your username

My Dcs grammar school has an intake at 11 and another one at 13,

If you are looking for a move from Surrey, Kent has Cranbrook school that starts from year 9. Stuffed full of vair nice children.

And please don't make assumptions about state schools and bullying.......

Exactly what seeker says.Kids are kids and bullying takes place in any and every school.It's how it's dealt with that is the thing.

His current school is very sheltered. One of his friends is absurdly square. DS: 'Come on let's go the playground'. Friend: 'Er, is your dad coming?'. Get to the playground, frisbee goes in the bushes 'Can you get it, I don't want to get scratched'. None of them are allowed to go anywhere on their own, etc.

Don't want him to go anywhere 'streetwise'.

"His current school is very sheltered. One of his friends is absurdly square. DS: 'Come on let's go the playground'. Friend: 'Er, is your dad coming?'. Get to the playground, frisbee goes in the bushes 'Can you get it, I don't want to get scratched'. None of them are allowed to go anywhere on their own, etc."

And this is a good thing?

I wouldn't like a child of mine to be in such a sheltered enviroment. tThe outside world is going to be a bit of a shock to the system.

Well that boy is particularly square, and to be honest he gets on my nerves a bit. Still it's true that the kids don't go out on their own.

However, my son is vulnerable and doesn't react well to being picked on (has ASD and is not good at understanding how others might respond to his reaction to this). He is still a little boy and I am quite aware of how it could go very badly wrong for him. I am not going to throw him to any wolves.

OP I think you have a strange perception of state schools. You say you think it's sheltered because the children never go anywhere alone.Do you think state primaries do?

"However, my son is vulnerable and doesn't react well to being picked on (has ASD and is not good at understanding how others might respond to his reaction to this). He is still a little boy and I am quite aware of how it could go very badly wrong for him. I am not going to throw him to any wolves."

I'm not quite sure what you are asking? Are you asking whether a state grammar school will provide the same atmosphere as a small, non pressured independent? If so, the answer is obviously "No".

What makes you think your child will be picked on at a state school? As far as I am aware private schools do not have a secret charm that prevents bullying.
Grammar schools are full of bright, well organised and focused pupils as well as a few quirky ones. Most seem to do well.

I think he would be better off in a lovely soft cocoon of cotton wool with a nice book to read and a biscuit, perhaps in your shed, lovingly redesigned to provide the perfect sensory school environment.

There's no substitute for going to have a look at some schools both state and independent . Why not take him to some of he open days . See which ones you feel he'll flourish in. Good luck.