State grammar schools compared with independent schools

[SkippyYourFriendEverTrue]

What are the most significant differences?

I am reading the Good Schools Guide and it is generally gushing about grammar schools and implies that you can get a £13k/year education for free. However I would have thought that class sizes would be larger at grammar schools, maybe other differences too.

I went to a state comp, there were 30 in my class, although I think that was partly because we were 'subsidising' the lower sets to have about 12 in the class.

DS is Y6 at prep school and can continue to Y8, around 15 in his class. We are concerned that he is probably quite vulnerable to bullying etc., although he hasn't that issue because the children at his prep school are all vair nice. Am a bit suspicious of state schools on this front, but that might not be fair.

It might all be irrelevant as we are in Surrey and no grammars here, but we are looking to move anyway was curious before committing to spend £100k on DS' secondary education (and then potentially the same again for DD).

I missed that bit.

Im not convinced being irritated by a child scared of a bush compensates for her rather judgemental view of Asian families in the UK and those on bursaries.

Neither am I! I also think she will fail to find the sort of school and child she wants.

The OP has certainly managed to ignore all the helpful suggestions. I think we've frightened her off!

Agreed that the OP has not seemed particularly open to advice on this thread and has some very strange ideas about what is and isn't acceptable to 'assume' about children met at school open days, but to add some general points to the original question:

No, you will most certainly not get a private education for free at a state grammar. The facilities will be nowhere near the same as independents and probably worse than the comprehensives (certainly in our county anyway - pre-academisation as an option, the grammars were 'starved' of budget compared to the other schools). And the class sizes are very large, too, for again the obvious budgetry reasons. (Again the comps can sometimes put on smaller class sizes because their budgets are slightly more favourable).

Yes, the 'behaviour' of the dc will on the whole be good (by which I mean 'motivated' and not necessarily 'kind') and the types of after-school clubs/curriculum options might be closer to an independent school than some (and note, only, some) of the comprehensives/sec mods but by no means can you make a sweeping generalisation. Indeed, the best resourced school in our county is a comp (one of the very early academies - 'flagship', not forced to become one) which the county chose to fund and fund and fund purely as a vanity project. Indeed, it is vastly better-resourced than ds's small independent school (which has to use a local comp's playing fields) but, of course, the class sizes are still the usual large state size.

Dc with ASD can do well in a grammar (the right one, it has to have good pastoral care, which ours does, and not just be pushing purely for results at the expense of everything else) for many reasons but mostly because (as I think you're implying) quite a lot of the dc are borderline/undiagnosed on the spectrum anyway, so your dc will not 'stick out like a sore thumb'. But I think from your description of your ds and, much more importantly, from what seems important to you, I think you will do best in a small, caring independent.

"The fact that you would wonder how an Asian family could afford school fees shows how out of touch you are with reality."

I wondered no such thing.

There's a British Pakistani boy in my son's class at prep school, among many other ethnicities in the school

However no matter how diverse the ethnic/national makeup of the school might be, I'm not sure you could say it's diverse. The Indian, Pakistani, Chinese, etc. children might look different from the white British children, but they all come out with the same prep school accent, the parents all have million pound houses, 4x4s, and so on.

As I said, "We are shown round by two Y8 British Pakistani/Bangladeshi boys from state primary schools. "

If people want to pick up on the Pakistani/Bangladeshi bit and ignore the point about going to state primary schools, so be it. If you think you can't begin to guess whether a child comes from wealthy family or not, again, that's up to you.

It's odd btw to equate 'Pakistani/Bangladeshi' with 'Asian'.

These are relatively old stats, from 2004, but show % by ethnic background achieving 5 A*-C at GCSE:

Chinese 73%
Indian 64%
White 51%
National Average 51%
Bangladeshi 45%
Black African 40%
Pakistani 40%
Black Other 37%
Black Caribbean 30%

It's obviously silly to group 'Chinese' and 'Pakistani' together as Asian when they have nothing at all in common.

% of families with low incomes, by ethnic background:

20% for White people.
30% for Indians and Black Caribbeans.
50% for Black Africans.
60% for Pakistanis.
70% for Bangladeshis.

So obviously the chances are MUCH higher that a Pakistani or Bangladeshi child's families is unable to afford school fees than a white child. Having come from a state primary school of course, that chance is higher still....

""If people want to pick up on the Pakistani/Bangladeshi bit and ignore the point about going to state primary schools, so be it. If you think you can't begin to guess whether a child comes from wealthy family or not, again, that's up to you."

Well, the reqson I didn't mention the state school thing is because it is wholly unremarkable- a significant number of year 8s in an independent school will be from state schools. And no, I can't see how you can tell whether a 12 year old boy in school uniform is from a wealthy family or not. Unless they are wearing hand made shoes, I suppose. Or smell of Trumper's Extract of Lime.......

It's odd btw to equate 'Pakistani/Bangladeshi' with Asian

Why? Have they moved continents?

The other point you seem not have grasped even if these boys were on bursaries it doesn't mean that you will qualify for one.
exotic it tectonic plate movement Pakistan is no longer part of Asia its now part of Europe!

As all good geographers know Asia comprises of 48 countries including India China Bangladesh and Pakistan.

*"There's a British Pakistani boy in my son's class at prep school, among many other ethnicities in the school"

"However no matter how diverse the ethnic/national makeup of the school might be, I'm not sure you could say it's diverse. The Indian, Pakistani, Chinese, etc. children might look different from the white British children, but they all come out with the same prep school accent, the parents all have million pound houses, 4x4s, and so on"* - to quote the OP.

What a strange sounding school and not representative of any of the 5 or 6 Prep schools I know.

Seriously - All the parents live in £million pound houses?? All of them? All* the parents drive 4x4's????

Glad I don't live where you do OP.