State grammar schools compared with independent schools

[SkippyYourFriendEverTrue]

What are the most significant differences?

I am reading the Good Schools Guide and it is generally gushing about grammar schools and implies that you can get a £13k/year education for free. However I would have thought that class sizes would be larger at grammar schools, maybe other differences too.

I went to a state comp, there were 30 in my class, although I think that was partly because we were 'subsidising' the lower sets to have about 12 in the class.

DS is Y6 at prep school and can continue to Y8, around 15 in his class. We are concerned that he is probably quite vulnerable to bullying etc., although he hasn't that issue because the children at his prep school are all vair nice. Am a bit suspicious of state schools on this front, but that might not be fair.

It might all be irrelevant as we are in Surrey and no grammars here, but we are looking to move anyway was curious before committing to spend £100k on DS' secondary education (and then potentially the same again for DD).

We probably won't go state. Just curious really.

The primary school that my DS went to actively encourages Y5 & Yr6 to become independent and if within distance make their own to school - walking or by bike.

As independent pre prep schools are not necessarily in walking distance of most of their students then a degree of independence in that way is not going to occur, but its got to happen at some stage and by doing it gradually not such a big shock to the child and parents.

''We probably won't go state.'' - don't knock it until you've tried it or in this case taken a closer look at the state schools on offer - may get a pleasant surprise .

If you want a independent with very high standards of pastoral care for all and SEN in the SE most parents you meet on the side of a rugby pitch and heads would say St Edwards in Oxford is in a league of its own.

If your DS is good at Maths, have you thought about RGS in Guildford? He can either join at 11 or defer until 13 I believe - which would give you the option to keep him in the prep for longer.

Agree with Blu, children dont get eaten alive in state school. Also, you need to look beyond the statistics, average does not mean typical.

IMO large schools can provide a far more welcoming atmosphere for the individual than a small school. In a large school it is much easier to find someone to be an individual with than in a small school where it is easier to become isolated (saw this with DN).

Yy, Gnome. Some people put too much emphasis on small schools being nicer, imo.

I am finding it very confusing tbh.

We are bored of the current school scene to be truthful, and would prefer to leave. It's quite a small school. But it's not bad.

However I realise now that it's a bit late to be looking for Y7 entry.

Don't think state is a realistic option as for us the fees would be much easier than jumping through the state selection hoops (right postcode, right church, etc.)

Also re small schools I think it may give a smaller pool of potential friends.

Perhaps you could consider a bigger prep school. gnome is right IME you get more diversity of personalities and thus a bigger pool of friends at a bigger school and importantly I would have thought for your DS's age group hopefully less wrapping of children up in cotton wool.

I've often wondered if private schools in this climate can be as strict with bullying as a state school can? Who wants to loose fees in a recession? In DS's state school, bullies get expelled - full stop.

But if private schools don't deal with bullies customers take their business elsewhere.

I think generally speaking private schools can afford the loss of a pupil or two. If they can't they are probably failing anyway.

Assuming that private schools are struggling for customers is a mistake - many are greatly oversubscribed.

Though Jenai, Gnome, if he has an ASD, he may find a large school simply too much.

Bintang, this is where it is worth looking at and talking to schools. Large schools can be large in the number of pupils but may have plenty of experience in assisting students to negotiate the school. Many schools arent a single massive alienating building.

Large school doesnt automatically mean large classes. My DD has just moved to a state high school with around 1900 students, 700 in the 6th form but the A level French class is around half a dozen.

If you were considering a move north of London OP then I would highly recommend this school - 'outstanding' in all categories with the only improvement being to show other schools how to be outstanding (I might be paraphrasing a little!).

"Don't think state is a realistic option as for us the fees would be much easier than jumping through the state selection hoops (right postcode, right church, etc.)"

Then what exactly was the purpose of the thread? Tourism?

I apologise for trying to get better informed.

But you haven't said what you want to know!

Is it me or is there something fishy about this thread. The OP has had quite a few helpful suggestions both re state and independent schools but seems to be ignoring everything and writing comment which Im not sure make sense!
Seeker you're right was is the point of his apart from to start the never ending state versus indie debate. Though this time it didn't work.

More money that sense
' bored of the current school scene '
Like many of us have a choice

I apologise for offending anyone, I didn't realise it was a sensitive subject. I'm afraid I don't know much about state education, it seems it has changed since I was at school.

So what would you like to know? Plenty of us use it and would be happy to answer your questions. Ask away!

I think the OPs questions were answered but perhaps she didn't like what was said. OP talk to your head friends neighbours mums you meet about local schools both state and independent you can read the GSG, ofstead reports, (neither in my view worth the paper theyre writen on), Tatler or post on MN but the best thing you can do is decide what a school must have; mixed close to home a particular sport/extra currucular activity etc go and look at a broad selection listen to whats said talk to teachers and pupils ask questions that matter to you and then do what we all do choose one hope you get a place and then cross your fingers that you made the right decision.

In terms of independence, year 6 is the start of a turning point, I would say. My dcs are state educated but prior to year 6, neither they or their friends at state primary went out on their own. Once they get into year 6, that is typically the age that parents start letting them have a little more independence - go to local park/shops/friends on their own (with mobiles so they can contact you and you them). This is to work up towards secondary when most would be expected to do at least some of the journey to/from school independently.

My dd had some friends whose parents absolutely would not let them off the leash at primary, drove them everywhere etc, and planned to do this at secondary too, but in practice,once they started secondary, found that acertain degree of independence was the norm and that a lot of time/money could be saved by letting their dcs have a bit of freedom.

So whilst at the start of year 6 your dc may seem totally unstreetwise and unprepared for independence, you'd be amazed at how much they can grow up ovr year 6/start of year 7.

Re grammar v private, clearly this is an irrelevant debate as you have already decided private is 'better' and state schools are full of rough bullies.

More pertinently,it's irrelevant as the decision has been made for you as it is now too late to apply for grammar schools as you have missed dates to apply for exams/misssed exams as these are all in Sept this year,due to a rule change across England. It used to be that some were in Nov or even later, but now results must be known before applications are made at the end of Oct.

So your dc would not get into any grammars.

So pointless thread, really, except to get your fears about 'rough' state school children out of your system.