AIBU for calling off marriage for good without proposal after 4 years?

[gingerandpeppermint]

Its my four year anniversary with my partner this weekend.
Im 33, my boyfriend 31.

This is the happiest I've ever been; I have never loved anyone more than this calm, cool, easygoing yet passionate, patient, loyal, funny, handsome, interesting and genuine person. I am so in love. We only moved in this year after the 3 yr mark and its been working out well. We haven't ever had a true 'fight' and generally sort micro issues out there and then. If I'm honest theres only one true fight we have which I've given up on now ; engagement. Nobody else has ever come into our relationship.

I was really surprised to learn that 2 yrs ago when my boyfriend was at a stag do and his friends drunk called me to say hi, his best friend said "hey, you better tell your man IM gonna be HIS best man at YOUR wedding!!!!!!". I felt so excited by this idea as I always thought a 2 yr mark would be ideal if you know youre with "the one". But to my horror I brought it up with him the next day and he said "yeah..im DEFINITELY not ready for THAT"... my boyfriends friends (who ive now inherited as my own) told me he is very "to the book". He was always a Mummy's boy too, following whatever his parents did (they were engaged after five yrs of dating but met at 20!).

The argument was brought up every few months as I saw our friends get engaged within 1-3 years and our last anniversary was awful! I was PMSing and a couple next to us in the posh restaurant looked like they were about to get engaged and I cracked. I told him 3 years was a LONG time not to be engaged and that knowing him with his very long timeline, we wouldn't even be married until I hit 40.

I cant lie, seeing him finally move out of his family house and move in with me has made me realise he DOES want a future. He asked that we open up a bank account together and he has been looking for houses. Quite frankly i feel like he is the one putting in the effort now. We continuously talk about our kids names and it seems he wants kids before marriage merely because the people in our city REALLY milk the wedding. Im talking big, glamour, whitest weddings. I understand that this would be the penultimate stressor.

I dont believe I'd be excited when he proposes now. Its like the novelty has worn off and I have told him that if we're not engaged by next year, I will never marry him. He seemed terribly devastated by this and I felt guilty but reminded him that this relationship isnt on his timeline only.
Honestly, his blasé attitude has put me off having children with him as he doesnt seem to understand im already in peri and most likely wont want a baby after 35.

Im anxious.
I love this man so much but worry how pathetic I'll feel announcing our 4 yr anniversary knowing we're not one step closer to being married. I feel embarrassed also being the older one in the relationship.
I do not want to end this and wonder if it is a step too extreme to completely write off marriage with him as at this point I will clearly be in my mid to late thirties when we actually do it.

There is a small glimmer of hope in me that it may happen this weekend but it feels wishful- my boyfriend was asking me about whether we could see my parents before we go away. He also asked abouy my dad's new job and his scheduled breaks in particular which he never does. He also asked if we could go "very fancy" to the restaurant and suggested I get my hair and nails done the day before which he hasn't done previously but im not holding my breath.

Advice? Thoughts?

I stopped reading once I got to the he wants kids before marriage.

He is future faking you.

If you can't talk to your partner about how you feel, then you are with the wrong man anyway. Grow some and have a conversation with him.

I have to disagree.

2 years ago none of my friendship group were married however all cooking and washing was done by the men in the relationship.

It didn't mean they didn't want a future, they just wanted to enjoy life before the pressure that comes after marriage

I cant lie, seeing him finally move out of his family house and move in with me has made me realise he DOES want a future.

This is another red flag. Men who move straight from their parents' home, where a lot is done for them, straight to living with a gf are usually used to being taken care of and having things done for them and not being a functional adult like someone who's lived on their own has to be.

Does he do half the domestic work? Doe he step in say, if you're sick or super busy at work and pick up the slack?

Communicate with him. You say you've brought up marriage every few months, it's time to make it clear you're not going to progress the relationship until you're married. You still have time to find someone else and get to know them before having babies, don't let him run your clock out.

I missed that bit. Given her situation though, would it be better to skip the marriage bit and just have the child?

I went through this age 27-30, so from when we had been together for four years to being together for seven. I contemplated leaving him and even made that clear on a few occasions. I had good reasons to want to get married before having kids, and a very good (family medical history) reason for wanting to crack on with getting pregnant.

Happily he did propose but it did take me a while to forgive him for those years of dilly-dallying, and I still wonder about the medical impact of delaying conception had on our lives. He does love me, he just doesn’t especially believe in marriage and dreaded the thought of a wedding. The day ended up being beautiful but it wasn’t an easy path there.

You are 33 so time is even more of the essence. It sounds like he is going to propose, but if he doesn’t then you need to ask him now. Especially if you are already in peri (?) Don’t let anyone fuck about with your reproductive future. If he loves you, then he should understand how high the stakes are for you and how making you wait might mean you don’t get to become a mum. I say this not to scare you but because I have been there and I was brave. Asking for what you want may not be “romantic” in the traditional sense but who gives a fuck really?

The proper tradition is that the would-be groom gets his would-be FIL on his own to ask him. It's a man-to-man thing. A hold-over from when men would only agree to the marriage if his daughter was going to be properly looked-after, considering she couldn't have her own property once married! My BIL asked to see my dad in the lounge - the door was shut and everything! And he was nervous.

When the time comes, I bet you and your DH will be pink with pleasure if your future SIL was so respectful, despite what you say now!

I think it's a sweet part of the wedding tradition. Everyone knows it's not real!

@Goodwitchglenda

Don’t let anyone fuck about with your reproductive future. If he loves you, then he should understand how high the stakes are for you and how making you wait might mean you don’t get to become a mum. I say this not to scare you but because I have been there and I was brave. Asking for what you want may not be “romantic” in the traditional sense but who gives a fuck really?

Hear, hear! Great post!

These men who fuck about for years on end piss me right off. They should know that women don't have time to waste, and they should consider themselves lucky that they have someone who wants to sprog with them!

NO. Women are potentially left very vulnerable by doing that. It's up to her partner to be straight with her and do the decent thing - i.e. shit or get off the pot. It's not up to her to compromise her position because he needs a bomb up his arse.

F

My future SIL? eh?
All our family are respectful, thanks!

I think it's a very outdated and patriarchal and sexist tradition that needs to go completely. First, no one owns another. Times have changed, thank goodness, and women are autonomous beings under the law. Second, families have changed, they're not cookie cutter a man a woman and their kids. How many women are not just single parents, but lone parents?

I don't think it's sweet at all to have men discussing what to do with women's lives. That would have been a deal breaker for me.

I think she wants the security of marriage, perhaps a modest registry office would suit.

I understand this, I really do.

But the majority of couples that I personally know have waited 10 years, give or take a little before getting engaged/married.

She's 33, so I don't think she's got 10 years pre children in all honesty.

This tracks. A lot of the ones I know also already have kids. Perhaps that's why it took them so long!

Right, I think she wants to be married before children.

Or skip the marriage nagging and find a father who wants to be one.

I gave my boyfriend of almost two and a half years an ultimatum. Get married or split up.

We got engaged and married 6 months later. That was 25 years ago.

Decide if it's the child or the marriage you want first. If you give an ultimatum, I think you need to be prepared, if you don't get what you need, you have to be prepared to move on.

Good luck.

Maybe as they’re both adults in relatively full possession of their faculties they could just discuss together whether they, as a pair of adults, feel they’d like to get married or not and if so, when? Without all this pathetic childish performative nonsense?

Some really nasty comments on here.

My thoughts exactly. The performative nonsense seems to be contributing to the stress.

And honestly if any partner of my daughters came to DP to force him into the cringingly awful and embarrassing malarkey of “asking permission” it would have been the biggest red flag either of us could imagine

Future SIL is son-in-law.

And I was not saying that your family isn't respectful, ffs! How did you get that from me saying that a potential SIL asking permission is respectful?? It was about the OUTSIDER, not your family! JFC, another one who can't read! And before you twist that into "Not asking permission wouldn't mean he was disrespectful" - I agree! It's simply extra-respectful to do so, if you are being traditional. But you obviously don't get the point I was attempting to make, which is that (I'll try again) no one takes asking permission seriously, it's just a sweet gesture that is part of the whole traditional-wedding shebang for some. If you haven't been brought up with traditions - and many haven't, these days - then it won't mean anything to you, and in fact probably seems like a much more serious thing than it is! After all, I doubt very much that a) permission is ever denied and b) that the couple would take any notice if it was! It's purely ceremonial. Like the bride's father giving away the bride is purely ceremonial. Geddit?

What an odd attitude. My exH didn't ask Dad's permission, and I was fine with that. I felt it was a bit cringey. But my BIL asked for permission to marry my sister, and he has been a dream BIL. Supported my sister and made her happy and has always been there for her, through thick and thin, and they celebrated their thirtieth wedding anniversary recently. He's the nicest bloke you could meet, cooks and does lots around the house and for their (now grown-up) kids. Red flag because he asked permission, indeed! How silly!