The Dating Thread 62 - They'll be FALLing for you 💖💕💘

[Nosdacariad]

The Rules:
-The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating
-Develop a thick skin
-Do not invest emotionally too soon
-It’s all BS until it actually happens
-Trust your gut instinct
-People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault
-Know your worth
-If it's not fun, stop
-Loo update is mandatory
-No dating the thread
-Treat others as you'd like to be treated
-Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with
-The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future
If you're wondering if you're being too picky/should give another chance after the second chance/should try harder - the answer is invariably NO! You're not and you shouldn't. If this, now, is as good as it's going to get, the A game, then do you want what comes next?!
-OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item*

I have considered that - and if I were to see him for a date then this is what would happen.

But I definitely expect the dump option - but I said on my pp I’m really not sure what I want - and yes I’m aware I’m probably actually hoping it’d resolve - ffs that’s sad! but there’s quite a lot now I reflected and detectived lol that would be bad news for me going forwards with him - he isn’t who I thought - I maybe just have to accept it enough I think to bin first.

@MsJinks, I think I can speak for all of us and say that none of us here are going to judge you whatever you decide to do.

We all care about you and want the best outcome possible.

Which, looking from the outside, is for you to dump his cheating arse! But I realise you have feelings from him so from your perspective it's much more complex than that.

What, for example, would you do if he admitted to taking her but begged for forgiveness and promised not to see her any more?

All these things are possible. And in a way, it's good you have some time for your emotions to settle, so you can figure out how you might want to respond to the different possible scenarios.

Just to clarify, did you say it's clear from his Facebook that his relationship with her and the one with you overlapped? (Beyond this current trip away, I mean).

Personally I feel after four months that’s a cop out. I think it is fair to assume something is exclusive as that stage, unless there has been an explicit conversation to set the boundary that it isn’t.

i know that might be old fashioned thinking in the days of OLD though. But unless a couple is maybe in their early 20s, honestly I think the “we didn’t say we were exclusive” is gaslighting bullshit, unless there has been an explicit conversation otherwise per above.

I totally agree, but I do think OLD has created bad behaviour where people think if they haven’t exactly said it’s some sort of excuse.

Do what feels ok right now. There is no right or wrong in this scenario.
give him enough rope to drop himself in it I’d say.

I have no sense of decorum and I have lost all sense of self trying to find out what the fuck is going on previously. It is hard to not think it must be me otherwise why does it keep happening!

@MsJinks if you hadn't discussed and confirmed exclusivity or ENM then it's totally on him. You would be doing her a favour too I expect. You mentioned they had 'issues' so it may have been his secrecy.

I have but I’ve played that song before too and didn’t leave me covered in glory lol. Mind I first told her when I had been out out so it wasn’t ideal - I ended up fairly humiliated though.

After Nr and Mr Player were done properly he was still texting. I saw them in a club and they wanted to talk to me and get me a drink - wild enough! - but I said no and they kept pushing as ‘it’d be good to catch up’ - I lost patience and said really player you don’t need to catch up since our texts yesterday.

So later that night he called - she’d thrown him out apparently- he wanted to see me as he still loved me 👀 - I didn’t! Anyway I was at caf next morning with a friend and player called - I answered and he was on speaker I could hear - he explained he’d been a bit of a bastard and was sorry he’d been unfair as he knew how much I wanted and loved him but he and new girl were currently in bed together - wtf - and very happy - fucking wild as fuck! So I’m not fast enough to say not what you said last night mate and just looked like a goldfish in the caf - girl code and all but not risking a repeat of that one haha!

Not fb precisely but lots of inconsistencies and stuff that I can now piece together - I left him to his quirks and privacy and I’m not fast enough to ask at each weird thing falling out his lying mouth - but equally each individual thing could be explained away anyhow.
Anyway, I decided to just leave it and thought I would eventually piece it altogether with further info that would naturally occur over time. Which I have in one way but also only via stalking anyhow so idk where that sits on my theory of handling relationships lol

God bless you - Player sounds like an absolute cock - and the woman involved sounds naive to the point of idiocy, except that I suppose we have all been there, believing what we desperately want to believe, however unlikely it sounds....

Still, you COULD tell Trees' woman. You hold that power. And if you tell him how you found out, he will know you hold it, if you see what I mean.

Not that you want to play power games, I know. But sometimes, when we feel like the rug has been pulled from under us, remembering that we do still hold some power in the situation is important.....

At least he had better bloody speak to you respectfully. And if it comes to it, give you the closure and honesty which is the very least you deserve.

I do believe in girl code and I’d prefer to get a message about it. However, I guess he’ll have excuses about psycho exes lined up already. This is partly why I expect a dump - to tidy up any possible questions - in his weird head anyhow.
Mr Player - I had to go no contact after nightclub wild - but spoke to him a few years later - that new woman had eventually dumped him, apparently she had him move in faster than they should as she didn’t trust him - go figure! - and apparently this was all my fault for telling her - ffs. He’s since married someone else but no idea how that is really going - hopefully he has settled.
So idk - it’s very low on my ‘things I may do’ list though - see how it pans out.

In fact, I don't know if this is relevant but I have just remembered that you had recently been concerned that Trees was spending a lot of time with his ex wife recently?

A picture is starting to emerge of a man who is very reluctant to let go of his exes - yet another harem-keeper?

(I think this is something for me to reflect on - I wonder if I am inadvertantlly a harem-member to a couple of my own exes.....)

Is one woman just not enough for any of these guys any more?

@Ilovelurchers I think it's men giving themselves several alternative options so they can a) behave as badly as they want without ending up single b) stop themselves getting too emotionally invested in one woman c) convince themselves they're a ladies' man 😂

Are there things in the way he is texting that make you suspect he is building up to dumping you?

And if he is, how certain are you it will be over text? That's pretty shitty after a four month relationship, in my opinion.....

I hasten to add that ENM is fine if that's the agreement - but in my experience it has been an arrangement men want because then they can keep their options open in case something better comes along - without them having to face the music for being 'unfaithful'.

What’s ENM?

Yes - he loves how great he gets on with them - which I saw as a green flag at first but now not so much lol - though equally and as I know it’s true he and his ex wife get on I imagine he presented well at time and still does to them. .

He didn’t however ever mention this ex ever - and seems he got on with her best of all!

I actually couldn’t manage continued contact as I am still liking at least who I thought he was - I live nowhere near him - by time I could manage contact it would be pointless all round and I can’t be arsed with lying conversations so I won’t be on his harem list - doubt he’d want me to be after we split officially lol.

Re harem - I never thought you were running one at all! There’s a balance to be found and from what I read you have this pretty much spot on already -friends with co parents and ok with exes is a green flag - don’t overthink it.

I had a mutual agreement of ENM with one guy I met. At that time with work and a younger child I didn't have the energy or interest for anything more committed, so it suited us both. However, I soon realised I was being brought in as a replacement for the guy's old girlfriend he'd got tired of - she had also agreed to ENM - but the more I probed, the more I realised she was still into him and had probably agreed to ENM so she could hang onto him a bit longer. He was essentially ensuring there was just overlap between us both, so he didn't have to be single for any time at all.

ENM = ethical non monogamy. In my (very limited) experience it essentially means you have a mutual agreement that you're each free to go off and explore other relationships, but are honestly communicating about this to everyone involved.

I think finding equity in this arrangement is extremely difficult to manage fairly and actually is just another form of manipulation.

No not really though his first few texts were blunt and distinctly different from his other holidays - but we are further on now and our general texting is different.

I think he and her have ramped up - he likes to think of himself as decent - yes really! I reckon he’ll consider to try properly after this is one reason. Ramped up is also logistically more difficult so get this over before something makes her aware is a sensible choice. The dates week before were a bit odd - almost goodbye stuff in actions and talks when I think - I mean he forgot to clarify but hey must have just been a forgetful minute!

I also think he got in a mess keep seeing both and judged it better not to dump pre holiday when he got to the wire - maybe he’d feel he wasn’t being a decent guy upsetting me and jetting off. He is very avoidant too. It’d be wild if he thought it could continue as is tbh.

Very telling that he never once mentioned this woman - I was going to ask that ....

Do you think he had time to be seeing her throughout the whole time you were together?

Ah that’s interesting - but no we didn’t agree this and we did agree exclusive - and if he got mixed up with ENM then he also got mixed up with the ethical bit - seems shit hot at the non monogamy bit though lol!

Wow - all go in here so before I catch up, here's the linky to the new thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5577610-the-dating-thread-63-crisp-air-warm?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

@MsJinks if he had become brusque in his texts in the lead up to the holiday it does unfortunately sound as if he was detaching. Although, probably not to make it easier for you, just because he's a selfish dick.

@MsJinks will respond on new thread

I think it's manners to at least give a reaction to a message to show you've seen it/liked it? Rather than reading and leaving it.
Otherwise you're right xxx