AIBU Criminal Record

[LRHRN]

I’ve been with my DH for 10years (he’s 46) and knew he had a few really old arrests for fighting when he was younger so that has never really been an issue….until today!!

We’re just in the process of getting all of our information together to start looking at our options for moving to America.
DH told me that he needed to order his records from the police to go with our paperwork as his arrests are more than likely spent now but just needed confirmation.
i was on his iPad And the records have arrived today via email (his iCloud account) and he hasn’t told me….so I’ve looked 😭😭 big mistake!!
Numerous arrests and convictions for Assault, Battery, Theft & False Imprisonment. WTAF!!!
I don’t even recognise that person as he is the total opposite to this and has been nothing but loyal and committed to me and our 4 children and always been very family oriented and all of his successes were for us as a family.
I haven’t confronted him yet and really don’t know how to.
Do I just forget about it? do I hold his past against him?
I don’t know if I feel upset or angry. I don’t know if I feel hurt that he’s never told me. I’m now questioning everything and have a sense of dread in the pit of my stomach about moving abroad.
im not for a second condoning his past AT ALL!! but…should it stay in the past?

I agree you need a bit of time.

But you know the man he is today and has been since you met. Should he have at some stage told you, yes, but I wonder if shame and embarrassment kept him silent, and the very real fear that he might have lost you, wrong - yes, but in those situations people do strange things.

Your husband sounds as if he has turned his life around, and should be commended for this, if you also agree with this, don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Could and should he have opened up and told you about his past, undeniably yes, hopefully he will be able to explain why he didn’t. Of course, it is your decision as to what you do after all the facts are put in the mix.

I suspect, however, plans to move to the US may not be as straightforward as first thought, but don’t preempt, seek advice. Good luck to you both.

I don't think you'll even be able to go on holiday there.

Spent convictions for violence aren’t necessarily a bar to entry to the US. Drug convictions are.

If your DH has been good to you and your children then I’d consider talking to him and finding a way forward as a couple. Without accusations.

He was violent. False imprisonment? This sounds like a violent thug, People grow up but either you are the type of person who can physically hurt people or you are not.

You've had a terrible shock and I really feel for you. I think I would explode if I had to wait to be told about it, and I'd have to ask him about it straight away.

You don't have to do anything now, and acting in the heat of the moment isn't likely to benefit anyone. Would he agree to counselling? Not for him really, but to help you to work out how you want to move forward.

For what it's worth, I know a lot of people who have completely changed their lives and become much better people after serving prison sentences in their youth.
I would also want to know more about the circumstances, and the range of behaviour that the law considers false imprisonment. Was it chaining someone to a radiator, or preventing someone from leaving a room during an argument? (Neither is excusable, but for me it would make a difference).
Many people (me included) have things in their past which they are ashamed of. Mine wasn't criminal, but it could easily have been. I have never told anyone about the thing I am ashamed of, for all sorts of reasons.

Agree, I don't think false imprisonment is the same as kidnapping? Still sounds very grim and he owes OP a full explanation. Sorry this has happened OP.....

This is out of date. Moral Turpitude is no longer the statement. It is ‘serious damage to persons or property’ now.

Also an ESTA would never work for moving there… it’s a tourist visa waiver. They would need a full visa to move there no matter their criminal history or lack thereof. Your comment is related to holidays only not immigration.

Plus people are not permanently inadmissible for theft - that’s for drugs, extreme violence, sex crimes, trafficking and terrorist offences. Theft you just need them to waive the ineligibility through a visa interview

It must have been a horrible shock, OP, seeing it all written down.

A few thoughts. You knew it was 'a few' convictions for 'fighting' - is assault and battery the criminal charge for the activity of 'fighting'?

I worked for a while with older teenagers doing reparation projects and at risk of gang activity. One had a conviction for false imprisonment - they had locked a rival gang member in a shed for 2 hours as collateral for some threatened extreme violence against one of their gang. They were involved in crime - dealing, had carried knives, had a list of police engagements. Not good kids.

But many were actually engaging, funny, bright enough kids with horrendous upbringings and living on estates where you had to join to survive. I see some of them out and about now, 15 or 20 years later, living proper decent lives a million light years from their former selves. They talk to me in the supermarket. Others - the ones I didn't work with because they were beyond our scope , were really nasty, and went on to be violent, even murderous, career criminals. One has been in the news on and off over the last few years.

Has your DH been working, holding down a responsible job, etc?

Talk to your DH, Listen. Ask lots of questions.

And in reality, even with the version of 'old fighting convictions' that you had thought about - you were hardly likely to get onto the States as citizens. My Dc's friend has had his student visa cancelled for jay walking.

You will consider divorce for something that happened 20 years ago!? But he has clearly changed- you have never seen this side of him. Please wait and think about this. You've got 4 children together and you say that he's a great husband and father. Why should he be punished for his past? Clearly people can change- your dh has changed. He's no longer that man that he was. Speak to a therapist because it would be so cruel to him and the children if you want to punish him for old sins.

Even some right hard nuts are family men!
But yeah, you're not moving to America.

@LRHRN Credit where credit is due, he sounds like a reformed character, despite the minimising of his past. But sadly I think his past maybe his undoing where the US is concerned and to be honest, who in their right mind would want to move to the US right now?

It doesn’t matter that the convictions are pre‑2004 or “spent” under UK law, the US doesn’t recognise the British concept of spent convictions at all. They look at the type of offences and the number, not how long ago they happened or whether someone has turned their life around.

Assault, battery, theft and false imprisonment are all classed as serious offences under US immigration rules, and multiple convictions (even decades old) usually mean the person is inadmissible. They class it as moral turpitude.

This is a good place to look at their standards. www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-8-part-d?utm_source=copilot.com

The US system is very black‑and‑white about this. Rehabilitation is lovely and important in real life, but unfortunately it doesn’t carry much weight with US border officials.

Have you been on holiday to the states because I don't think he would be able to use ESTA. It’s the online form people from visa‑waiver countries (like the UK) fill in to visit the US for up to 90 days. It asks questions like, have you ever been arrested, have you ever been convicted of a crime involving moral turpitude, have you ever violated any law relating to controlled substances? If you answer yes to any of these, you are not eligible for ESTA and must apply for a full visa instead. From what you have said, had he answered truthfully, it would have been yes and he would have needed to apply for a full VISA, and they will see the entire history. With several violent/property offences, a tourist visa is still very likely to be refused. So has he been to the States, because if so, did he lie on the ESTA?

For moving to the US, the bar is even higher. Multiple convictions for violence and theft, even from 20+ years ago, almost always mean no green card, no long‑term visa, no waiver.

So yes, he may be a reformed character now, but sadly the US system doesn’t take that into account. The age of the convictions doesn’t fix the problem.

Sorry OP, I migt be wrong, but I don't think I am.

You knew he’d had arrests for fighting so the assault and battery isn’t new information, just the theft and false imprisonment. So what did he steal and who did he imprison is what you should find out.
Has he been allowed into America before ?

Is this teenage gang against gang stuff or god forbid was he older and it was against a woman/women?

Op, he won't even be let in for a holiday to the USA. Much less move there permanently.

I think you’ll potentially have to rethink the moving plans.

I know someone who’s family had to cancel their holiday after her dad failed to get even get an ESTA approved due an offence when he was younger and that was just to visit New York for 4 days. They are very strict.

Chaining someone to a radiator like Boy George was convicted for .... while maintaining his celebrity status enough to go on IACGMOOH?

The false imprisonment charge would really concern me…I’d be doing Clare’s law op

I think him being honest with you about them is important. However, he did tell you he had some old arrests and while he didn’t mention the theft, the rest is more serious and in keeping with what he told you. It sounds like he minimized it a bit, but people are often surprised by charges that come out of relatively common (I’m not condoning, just pointing out it happens a fair bit) street brawls and football or other group violence. Did you ask for details at the time?

If I have the dates right, these all happened before he was 24 and more than a decade before he got together with you. I think that’s pretty important.

We’ve become aware, in the last few decades, of how brains don’t mature until 25ish. And even before we understood the physiological reasons, we knew that many young men who get involved in crime in their youth grow into normal, helpful, considerate, upstanding men.

I would not turn this into a conflict. You have 10 years of him showing you who he is now. Because it all happened before he was 25 and it was years before he got involved with you I think that’s far more important than who he was then.

33% of men have a criminal record and ~11% have spent time in prison by the time they are 50, and most were convicted before they were 25 and haven’t been convicted since.

There’s a difference between you having asked in the past what exactly was he charged with and him lying and hiding the actual charges and a scenario where he talked about it all and said he was charged with fighting and violence etc, yes that situation isn’t great of him but it would have been him thinly skating around the truth rather than full on lying.

If you are close to moving to the US, does that mean tht you have visited already? Of so then your OH must have lied to obtain a visa and get access. This will be seen as very serious. even if not, as other PP have said, the US dont recognise rehabilitation so emigrating to the us is a complete non starter.

What a mess. Sorry OP.

I really don't think it's that simple. I've worked with a lot of offenders and there's a lot where I've read the referral and thought they were going to be a tough nut to crack but actually they really were desperate to get out of the hole they'd found themselves in and were actually quite vulnerable themselves.

I think op your dh needs to sit down and be very very open about the context to all this.

If you genuinely only know him to be loving and kind and hardworking etc then he's obviously worked hard to put this in his past.

I think how honest he is about it all is what would make the decision for me. Everyone who takes accountability for themselves and puts the work in deserves to at least have the opportunity to better themselves and have a better future. I don't think you'll know what it is until you sit down with him and just ask him to tell you his story. Then you can at least make an informed decision about what to do next.

Some of the best community leaders I've worked alongside have had very serious convictions in their past and turned things completely around. It can be done and it should be commended when it is because its a bloody hard thing to do.

So he's been merrily letting you plan on emigrating to the USA, whilst knowing his criminal record would highly likely preclude it? Ouch.

Are you still the same person you were when you were a younger ? People change. They mature. They move on.

You can't begin to form any opinions or make any decisions without reading the full allegations, investigation notes, charges, trial transcripts and sentencing decisions, ie disposition of charges and if there were conditions.
I'd also want to see what he wrote on prior travel/visa applications.
Depending on his job, I'd be wondering if he was truthful in job applications.
It's a long list, but you need to know everything.