I think I have to leave my husband

[PlaidJane]

I have had a nice little life the past few years with my DH, we get on well he’s a nice guy generally and we have an enjoyable time together. He’s quite insecure in his looks and not overly confident so I do feel I fall into the pattern of being a bit motherly, you know giving him reassurance. He says a lot of the time that I’m out of his league. This isn’t wildly attractive I’m sure some people would agree and I can find it annoying as I am not that shallow, I want someone who makes me feel loved and is nice that’s all.

I’d say the issue in our relationship up until now is that I feel like I am putting on a perfect persona all the time as he finds it hard to cope with me in any other raw format version. He gets defensive and upset if I have any Big Feelings - even if they aren’t related to him at all. Therefore I don’t share many big or small feelings with him. Hence the plodding along.

Over time I recognise I feel friendly affection for him with our lives tied together in a house and joint assets etc and I wasn’t going to disrupt anything.

I am a people pleaser and I find it so hard to let people down or put myself first.

I have been working on a short term project with another man for some months now which has ended. During this time we got along great, but I didn’t think anything much of it as I knew the project would end and mostly thought just this guy is a nice guy.

I don’t think we spoke emotionally or overshared our personal lives more than normal colleagues, we worked well as a team and had good fun in the process. As the project came to an end and we said goodbye, we both simultaneously appeared to realise we had formed some kind of feelings for each other.

I assume this is what happens to movie stars on film sets or strictly shows, when you spend a lot of time with someone in close proximity. So I’m not sure it’s real at all. I got worried I was in limerance so was working on detachment

We have had one honest in person conversation about this where we shared exactly identical experiences and thoughts about each other - it’s so weird and uncanny. I feel like we just wanted to check we were not going mad and deluded in our own minds? These moments in our minds were totally identical realisations or memories, matched each other in sync. This has never happened to me before. We both admitted we had grown attracted to each other physically but more than that, we liked each others personalities and couldn’t stop thinking about the other. It’s affecting both our sleep and appetites. We have agreed we need to detach because it’s very dangerous

Running off together is ridiculous, this isn’t some big romantic movie, also this is an awful thing to do to my husband. I’d rather be single right now and have none of this hassle I just want to run away from everything and everyone

I think I’m having a midlife crisis of some kind and I have to leave my DH but I don’t know where to even begin to detangle our complex finances. We don’t have any savings and a huge mortgage and the market is terrible right now for selling. I also feel sick at the thought of telling him I’m not romantically in love with him as it would break his heart.

I was in exactly this situation years ago. I had the sense to realise that my relationship with hudband was making me depressed, and I realised the ' new' person, though ee really fell for each other, wasnt really someone I could make a relationship with in the ' real' world. I got divorced, stopped being in contact with the other man, and spent 10 years as a single person. I then met a lovely man who I connected with very well and we have now been together 10 years and I thonk will stay together for the rest of our lives.

I literally still have these moments where I have a panic and think OMG am I making a huge mistake, have I just imagined all of this and what if the problem is me, and he’s a decent guy and I’m just the broken one here and I’ve caused all this because I liked someone else a bit some months ago.

Then I have one conversation with him and realise everything is such a mess and I can’t see a way out.

I just read your first post again where you said you'd had a nice little life with DH that he was a good man etc etc but then the work colleague situation where you both connected and felt the same about each other and maybe you realised what you had been missing? Have you seen him much lately?

I think you can manage this see saw of emotions if you take time and recognize them as just thoughts snd feelings. They will come and go. Just welcome them and wait for them to pass.

My guess is you experience this “uh oh what if he was right” periodically when you are feeling tired, or lonely. Stop and evaluate using HALT: am I hungry, Angry, Lonely, or Tired? Deal with the potential stimulus and you may find the longing to undo the separation vanishes.

Hi OP, I hear what you're saying, I've felt similar before when relationships have ended. But what I've come to realise about anything really is that if you are consistently having doubts over a long period of time then something isn't right. I don't know, it's like when something is good, or mostly good you don't consistently feel anxious about it and wonder if you should end it or stop it or leave etc. I think often our anxiety is a message that something isn't right and needs to change. And when it's about a person and their way of relating and you've tried asking them to change and they haven't. That's your answer really. I think as women we doubt ourselves so much. The older I've got the more I try to back myself and my hunches. And if you find you don't know or aren't sure, as someone else has said, you can sit with that uncertainty and at some point, it will become clear and you will know.

@JJkate thank you this makes a lot of sense!! Sitting with uncertainty is strange but enlightening.

@disturbia I have seen him a couple of times and we have texted but I’m unsure whether it would ever be a good idea to consider pursuing it at any point in the future. He seems a nice guy and he’s easy to talk to and he has given me similar advice to others on this thread. He seems content with whatever pace and proximity I would offer in the form of a friendship but I know he is interested in me so this adds a level of complexity. I’m too confused to make good decisions, I think I could overlook some red flags and get myself into a lot more mess. It would be so easy to run to that guy, he has a very good set up in life with free time, less commitments so there must be a catch it is too good to be true 😂

He has continued to try to get me to reconcile with him via my DD’s. He has been a lot calmer and has asked me a lot of questions to try to understand my perspective. However, what’s happened is that he keeps asking me questions and I keep giving answers and then he keeps saying I am twisting things, belittling him and manipulating him by changing my narrative and bringing up new issues.

yesterday he saw my DD and cried to her and she got really upset and asked me to consider taking him back. I said I was still upset with him over his behaviour.

Last night I was feeling really upset on my own about this, and had a couple of glasses of wine and went to bed (DD’s room she was out). He came home late and knocked on my door and was in a bad mood about a mess in the house and made a dig that it’s always him clearing it up. I told him I was feeling sad and crying and didn’t know that mess was there. It all escalated from there to be honest where I got cross at his attitude towards me and I ended up being short and snappy with him and he made a big performance sending me texts about how he is afraid of me and can’t be alone with me as he doesn’t know what I will do anymore, and I have ‘tantrums’ and everyone has seen them and this is a tantrum and it’s scary for him, and he left.

He says I have broken him and he can’t be around me as I am scaring him, I belittle him and twist everything. Thing is, I can see how I have probably engaged in this madness at times and now I am left as the perpetrator and he is the victim and this is the one thing that’s obviously going to make me very angry as I feel so aggrieved that he has twisted it. I probably just need to accept it and stop trying to defend myself don’t I

Honestly OP it’s got to the stage where you need to end this in terms of his access to you.
It is getting you nowhere, it is going to make you very very poorly. He is manipulating not just you but the whole family.
Talking about you being ‘dangerous’ is very serious.
Stop engaging with him in this way. Don't read his DMs. I know it’s tough but it’s time for you to get tough and not enable this madness any more.
There is only one line here - things are no longer working and I want to end things. No apologies, no hours of these discussions, a simple communication and a message that nothing is going to change your mind.

Why is he dragging your daughters into this? That's bang out of order, seriously. I know they are adults - but so young! and more to the point, he's talking to them about their Mum. Doesn't that make them (and you) feel icky? It does me.

I think this is why I was so upset with him. My DD had been crying and I felt so sorry for her. He had ambushed her again with his sob story and she came to me and I felt bad for her and felt softer about the situation and wasn’t expecting him to come back in a snappy mood towards me about the mess because of how he has been with DD, and also he was very nice to me the last couple of days. Nothing makes sense. I’m upset he keeps talking to them like this, he says things like he’s sad he will never see them again. We can’t move out for months, why is he saying this to them? He just says in a sad sack way ‘I was just feeling sad when I saw her’ and then when I say get a grip, apparently I’m belittling him? I’ve not spoken to one single person in his family for weeks so it’s not like I’m retaliating

I have posted this before along with many others ..STOP falling into the trap he constantly sets for you. He could report you to police for alleged coercive controlling behaviour.The fact he says he is scared of you is the clue here. I feel sorry for your daughter with her divided loyalties towards you both and hearing you both crying must be miserable for her.

My DD was out when I was upset. She did not see any of this she saw him before hand. I have been vague with DD’s to try to protect them.

I am not going to engage anymore because I am very unsafe

Good...but he will try to provoke you with anything. I have seen this before dad provokes mum so much she loses it with him he records the conversation on his phone and uses that as evidence to police saying he is scared of her and many other untruths Your DD may not have witnessed you crying but will pick up all the bad vibes in your home which will affect her. It would be easier if he moved out

What a manipulative POS he is @PlaidJane
Stick to your safe way forward to not engage with him.

Trying to use your daughters in his play is disgusting too.

I have told him that we can only communicate via a mediator or a divorce app from now on. He is careful on messaging what he says but in person he is horrible so I need to be better at not rising to it

This will keep me safe but also it will cost him money, so if you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes

Good stick to that and keep a log of his behaviour and maybe secretly record him being aggressive to you. You may need this should he threaten you and you call police then need a non-molestation order

this is classic abusive behavour OP. Don't fall for it. He has probably conditioned you, so it will take time to adjust and not fall into that pattern so don't berate yourself for that. This is a new skill you are developing. Just carry on doing the grey rock; be civil but very boring, very remote and stick to transactional practicalities, nothing else. If he tries to engage you in anything else you either walk away and make an excuse or you flat out say you're not having this conversation. Do not let him tie you up in knots; e.g. you don't have to explain to him that you're not going to explain anything to him. Imagine he's like a nasty idiot who doesn't quite get things and you just need to be civil but firm and very boring and brief. Keep putting one foot in front of the other, this won't last forever even if it feels like it now. Wankers like this often ramp up their manipulation when they start feeling they're losing control. Have you called Women's Aid for advice?

“Oh?”
”sad to hear it”
”Im busy now”
”I have plans”
”I don’t know “
“Haven’t seen it”

These are pretty much all purpose things to say or enact. Think of it as a game you are playing. Glance at your watch. Can you end or evade his gambits in 15 seconds? Then you win. Treat every interaction as a chance to better your grey rock score.

My friend who he knows too, he had messaged her some weeks ago spoke to me today, she’s also seen some of our messages she agrees he just seems focused on winning something, not the outcome as such. She agrees his behaviour is controlling (from a place of fear) and a lot of what he says is from shame and projection.

I think when he came home last night and we were alone, and he didn’t have any other 3rd party at home to regulate his temper and it scared him. he lost his temper about the house mess very quickly and then he knew he had already lost control of his temper in front of me and I would pick up on it. So he ended up doubling down on that out of shame and frustration and basically razed everything to the ground in a fury and chaos.

I can do grey rock very well when someone is angry but where I appear to struggle is someone who is sad. I need to practice this as he knows this works on me

You could approach the police directly and report him for coercive control - it's listed in the Serious Crime Act (2015) - but it might well be better and a lot easier on you (I think) if you first talk to Refuge (0808 2000 247 - they run a National Domestic Abuse line ) or by contacting Women's Aid https://womensaid.org.uk/about-us/contact/ and they will understand better than anyone the sometimes "hard to define" low level abuse you are being subjected to - that's just my opinion based on what you've said so far - it's clear as daylight to me even if you are sometimes unsure - he's verbally pressuring you, destabilising you emotionally, interrogating your reasons for leaving, switching moods unpredictably, giving you the silent treatment, shouting, sulking, being “in your face”, trying to undermine your thinking, punishing you for starting to think about yourself first and foremost, involving your children to pressurise you and manipulate the situation - it's a nightmare - my marriage gets a bit frayed around the edges at times but it's a million light years away from what you are experiencing. You are being subjected to coercive and controlling behaviour, which is a criminal offence - ultimately you can apply for a non-molestation order or even an occupation order to keep him safely at arms length - IMHO you really need to look into this seriously to protect your own state of mind. I think you're going in the right direction but not there yet.

OP, most people are capable of sadness unless they're psychopaths. It doesn't mean he has the right to try to manipulate you back into a relationship with him. In my book anyone who won't take no for an answer and tries to force someone to get back with them is not a good person, no matter how sad about it they are. Try to focus on yourself and your daughter. Or, you could stay with him to stop him being sad. No, fuck that it doesn't sound like that is what you want. You can't break up with someone and then make them feel better about it, that's something the other person needs to sort out.

He was being very irritating about mediation and trying to basically fob me off. I stood my ground and said I’m not communicating on text anymore, you can email me if necessary and use a shared calendar. I will not be engaging in any face to face discussions. I request you do not talk to my daughters about this anymore.

Well done for putting down the boundaries op.

But be careful in future with things like telling him you are sad. Any form of weakeness from you will be attacked. It will not make him more kind or considerate of you, he is your enemy, he is actively looking for weaknesses to attack.

In future “FUCK OFF”. Calm and deliberate but with vitarol. Stop being nice to him. He will paint you as a bad guy either way so do what you need to do to protect your space.

And stop trying to protect your daughters by hiding what he is really like. That’s not protecting them. It’s leaving them open to his manipulations. Be honest with your kids and tell them you want nothing more to do with the manipulative snake of a man and they’d be wise to follow your lead but it’s entirely up to them.

I had not read the updates ... lol