I think I have to leave my husband

[PlaidJane]

I have had a nice little life the past few years with my DH, we get on well he’s a nice guy generally and we have an enjoyable time together. He’s quite insecure in his looks and not overly confident so I do feel I fall into the pattern of being a bit motherly, you know giving him reassurance. He says a lot of the time that I’m out of his league. This isn’t wildly attractive I’m sure some people would agree and I can find it annoying as I am not that shallow, I want someone who makes me feel loved and is nice that’s all.

I’d say the issue in our relationship up until now is that I feel like I am putting on a perfect persona all the time as he finds it hard to cope with me in any other raw format version. He gets defensive and upset if I have any Big Feelings - even if they aren’t related to him at all. Therefore I don’t share many big or small feelings with him. Hence the plodding along.

Over time I recognise I feel friendly affection for him with our lives tied together in a house and joint assets etc and I wasn’t going to disrupt anything.

I am a people pleaser and I find it so hard to let people down or put myself first.

I have been working on a short term project with another man for some months now which has ended. During this time we got along great, but I didn’t think anything much of it as I knew the project would end and mostly thought just this guy is a nice guy.

I don’t think we spoke emotionally or overshared our personal lives more than normal colleagues, we worked well as a team and had good fun in the process. As the project came to an end and we said goodbye, we both simultaneously appeared to realise we had formed some kind of feelings for each other.

I assume this is what happens to movie stars on film sets or strictly shows, when you spend a lot of time with someone in close proximity. So I’m not sure it’s real at all. I got worried I was in limerance so was working on detachment

We have had one honest in person conversation about this where we shared exactly identical experiences and thoughts about each other - it’s so weird and uncanny. I feel like we just wanted to check we were not going mad and deluded in our own minds? These moments in our minds were totally identical realisations or memories, matched each other in sync. This has never happened to me before. We both admitted we had grown attracted to each other physically but more than that, we liked each others personalities and couldn’t stop thinking about the other. It’s affecting both our sleep and appetites. We have agreed we need to detach because it’s very dangerous

Running off together is ridiculous, this isn’t some big romantic movie, also this is an awful thing to do to my husband. I’d rather be single right now and have none of this hassle I just want to run away from everything and everyone

I think I’m having a midlife crisis of some kind and I have to leave my DH but I don’t know where to even begin to detangle our complex finances. We don’t have any savings and a huge mortgage and the market is terrible right now for selling. I also feel sick at the thought of telling him I’m not romantically in love with him as it would break his heart.

He doesn’t have to agree or like it. You are allowed end it. It’s so hard when they don’t get the message. I hope you will be okay x

Well done. That sounds like it must've been hard going for you. You can't make him accept it. All you can do is stick to your firm boundaries. Tbh being clear and brief is doing him a kindness because the more you try to sugar coat and be too nice to him, the more hope he may try to cling to.

Well done OP although why did you allow him to keep you in the kitchen for an hour? He is using more manipulating behaviour to make you change your mind. It may be worth sending him a message or writing him a letter confirming you agreed at your meeting the marriage is over and you are not prepared to try again or any other interventions to save it. This sounds a bit formal but he is not listening to you....

@disturbia I was tired and trying to diffuse it in front of my DD and he said he had some questions, I felt it was fair to hear what he wanted to ask but yet again it was just pressure not to end our relationship.

Also he brought up some very traumatic experiences from my past that I’ve told him years ago. he said he had ‘no idea’ of how they might have affected me this deeply, ie previous experiences of DV and assault and how he’s sorry he’s triggered these feelings in me with his recent behaviour. I did explain that these were never secrets from him, he had all the information handed over to him, including the long term impact of them, and it was his choice how he processed or used that information, but to me it appeared that he had just forgotten they existed until I recently reminded him.

I explained this lack of connection and respect was why our relationship wasn’t working.

I didn’t say this part, but I have always been aware and cautious of his pain and triggers and actively worked to protect him but didn’t get the same respect given to me

I understand it can be hard to let go of a relationship and accept it but he doesn’t even seem to like me very much when he talks to me so his words and actions don’t match up

The words and actions “match up” in that he is a controlling, abusive, person who will do or say anything to keep you under his thumb. That is who he is. Fair words/foul deeds.

I am concerned that he trapped you in the kitchen for an hour and renewed the browbeating and the badgering. If you can, safely, refuse any further discussion. Just say no and go out if you have to.

As for your finances I don’t think, while you are married, he can make you share money with him do do what you need to do without apology.

Stay firm OP this is only his latest attempt to manipulate you into backing down.

Well done OP.

Yes, he will accept it eventually. He has to.

My ex-DH took about 10 years. We sort of shook hands on it after that.

For now, try to forget about whether he accepts it or not (easier said than done, I know). Just keep breathing and putting one foot in front of the other. Every step you take is in the right direction: a better life for you, and although he doesn't realise it yet, quite possibly a better life for him (because he will need to do some growing up, and won't do it with you around to lean on).

it sounds like therapy and couples counselling is needed for your marriage. It is alot of cost, but you will get to the bottom of your problems with him. You married him for a reason, but feel out of love because of things he did or did not do.
You may need therapy and counselling.

They used to give out the VC for this kind of bravery - sticking to your guns under enemy fire like this. You shouldn't have to tiptoe around his minefield of hair trigger insecurities. Clearly you have some empathy for him and finally you've found some for yourself - to me, it sounds like you have worked at this relationship, to the detriment of yourself and lately you've taken a step back to get some perspective on what you both bring to the table and seen the unfairness in it, something I doubt he has ever done or is variable of - he seems VERY focused on himself - the irony or truth is that your needs aren't being met... and neither, apparently are his: it's not working is it? I do wonder if he going to keep coming back at you like a shark wanting to take another bite out of you so I think it's important to keep the door firmly closed on any ideas he might have about working anything out. Acceptance is going to be very hard for him so I'd expect him to be erratic from this point on. TBH who knows what the future holds - I suppose it's possible that he'll grow from this but I'm sceptical.

If absolutely necessary, do you think you could get him in front of another counselor if you ever need to tell him again in no uncertain terms, that there's no way back? Brief the counsellor beforehand on the point if the meeting from your perspective.

I hope you can make this work out how you want it to - honestly you're doing something harder than I or most people on here (I guess) have ever had to do so I don't underestimate how hard it's going to be. I too think you are going to need some counselling - all the best though.

No! He is outright abusing her. NEVER go to therapy with an abuser. A couples counselor or therapist should never agree to take on a couple where such abuse is present. It is contraindicated and something we therapists are required not to do.

He has made me an offer to try to get me out of the house. It’s not a very good offer, but it’s a start. I refused to come off the deeds but might be able to rent. I’m worried I can’t pass any credit checks with a huge mortgage sitting on my credit file though.

We never signed any documents protecting his deposit and he married me. I agreed that I wouldn’t be taking 50% of it, however he’s decided that his deposit contribution will be staying fully in tact no matter whether the house has any equity or not, and any fees comes out of my portion not his, so my contribution will reduce accordingly but his not at all.

I will get legal advice but at this point I don’t care somewhat, I just need to get away from him.

I let emotions get the better of me last night when he was trying to talk to me. He continually keeps bringing up my past trauma experiences to try to ‘understand’ me. He says everyone he has spoken to agrees that sometimes couples shout at each other and they get past it and he’s trying to understand why my reaction to shouting is so extreme and I’ve checked out

He made it sound like he had run all this past other people and told them my personal traumas and I got very upset and said that it was no one else’s business, and he wasn’t entitled to keep bringing this up and the why doesn’t matter and isn’t relevant. I then brought up his personal trauma which was probably in retaliation so that’s my fault, and he got very angry and shut me down, so I pointed out the double standard there and I started to cry and got away from him to go to bed in my DD’s room, he followed me trying to get a hug which I refused.

He asked what I wanted and I said a calm and peaceful life where I am not having to fight someone all the time and safety and that he had shown he could not give me these things

He seems to react positively when I crack and get upset and he also asked me for another hug this morning I said no because he sees this as weakness and a crack to get back in

I don’t really know what’s best to do now and I keep getting confused and I think the financial instability issue is causing me to become disorientated. I’m trying to hold down a full time job and I don’t have spare money to spend on legal fees

You will feel better when you have more people on your side. Look realistically at the money issue. If hiring an aggressive solicitor for a few hours will get you 50/50 of the equity it will be worth it.

Congratulations for realizing how he uses these extended conversations to abuse you to tears then tries to reattach with demands for a hug. You are learning snd now you can avoid him more successfully.

Work out a curt phrase that repels him instantly “No, we are not discussing this anymore.” If he tries to bring up your past trauma just be even colder “You really don’t want to start with me here . I will discuss your personal business with everyone we know if you keep this up.”

1, Is it a cash offer of several thousands i.e. almost your share of any equity n the house
or just a cash offer of a couple of thousand or so - enough for a deposit on a rental and the 1st months rent

I am not expecting you to give actual figures as that's private but I think you would keep your privacy re the two questions above.

1. re his deposit - surely that will be decided in the divorce and not by him
2. no the fees will be split 50/50 surely otherwise you are really losing out !
3. is he expecting you to continue paying towards the mortgage if you do move out
4. can he afford the mortgage himself otherwise
5. can you afford the mortgage if he moves out instead
6. probably time now to at least have the 30 min free session many solicitors offer, unless you already have ?

Whatever the practicalities are this man is appalling. Absolutely vile.
He has no right to discuss such private information and never trust a man who says ‘everyone I talk to’ they are full of it.
Full of it.
Asking for hugs after he’s visibly upset you? He’s an absolute pig.
Notice he changed tack when you brought up his past.
I have been around a couple like this. He constantly needed to discuss her past traumas. It went on for years and years and then reached a head. It drove her to suicide and she finally told people how bad things really were and her brothers were furious.
And… she went back. Said it was easier to give into him.

He can’t keep his temper very long at all, during conversations he’s very measured and careful at first then it all slips again. It’s a good example of how a few weeks of therapy can’t change a person

The last part of our conversation I was crying and saying I’m so tired I can’t do this, I am going to bed, and he can’t help himself he responds snappily ‘well I am even more tired I haven’t slept in a month!’ I said it’s not a competition of who is more tired and this defensiveness is a big problem for me.

He’s so caught up with what everyone else might think of him he just keeps going round in circles saying he’s asked everyone else and they have told him he’s not scary or aggressive so it’s my ‘interpretation’ through a lens of PTSD that’s creating an ‘illusion’ of unsafety, he had written me a letter about all my past traumas and how they were worse than what he has done and he’s still wanting to support me on my healing journey etc etc but I had a month ago written him a long list of all his flaws and he can’t stop ruminating on it and me saying ‘I’m not responsible for your feelings’ apparently isn’t healthy in any relationship

Finance wise I will use vague examples…

Say the house was worth £300k, he says it’s not gone up in value it’s the same as what we paid for it

he put in a big deposit let’s say £50k

I brought less in, this essentially paid for legal fees and stamp duty etc let’s say £15k

So he has £50k which he wants to protect

We have paid off £10k of the mortgage

The mortgage costs £2k per month (50/50)

He’s offered me half of the mortgage that’s been paid off (£5k) plus no contribution to mortgage anymore until house sells (saving me £1k pm) and then if the house sells for more, he will split that equity with me

But there will be early redemption on the mortgage, estate agent and legal fees so I am worried I might end up owing him money back actually, plus LL’s might not rent to me while I have a mortgage liability outstanding

Whatever you do DO NOT AGREE TO ANYTHING ABOUT THE HOUSE without taking legal and financial advice. This man is abusing you verbally and emotionally and he will certainly abuse you financially given half a chance.

OP ...please stop having long conversations with him you know how they all end. It is possible to have a one off low cost appt with a solicitor to run the financial stuff by them. Domestic abuse agencies will know your local ones or contact your local Citizen's Advice Bureau and ask them.

' Say the house was worth £300k, he says it’s not gone up in value it’s the same as what we paid for it
he put in a big deposit let’s say £50k
I brought less in, this essentially paid for legal fees and stamp duty etc let’s say £15k
So he has £50k which he wants to protect
We have paid off £10k of the mortgage
The mortgage costs £2k per month (50/50)
He’s offered me half of the mortgage that’s been paid off (£5k) plus no contribution to mortgage anymore until house sells (saving me £1k pm) and then if the house sells for more, he will split that equity with me
But there will be early redemption on the mortgage, estate agent and legal fees so I am worried I might end up owing him money back actually,'

that was really useful. without you having to give true figures.

1. He says the house has not gone up in value - so you get 3 estate agents in for valuations and check the prices in your nearby roads for an idea of what they are being advertised for, and you can apparently check what they actually sell for ( I don't know that bit, but see if on property threads on MN )
2. It will only be fair if you get to protect your £15k - that was what you gave over, it doesn't matter to me that it paid the fees. Otherwise he would have had to pay £7.5 in fees and ' only ' have a deposit of £42.5
3. He should have ring fenced his deposit ! It's mentioned enough on threads and his solicitor should have advised him on this - not your fault if he didn't.
4. Can he afford to keep on the mortgage and put it in his name as he is going to tell you / inform you that it's kind / generous of him to pay the mortgage when you move out.
5. Otherwise can you and your young adults take on the mortgage in your name / your names ?
6. Is £1000 enough to rent anywhere ?
7. I guess he clearly has £5k spare ( prob a lot more ) as he has been able to offer you that now. I think he ought to pay ' early redemption on the mortgage, estate agent and legal fees ' and give you £5k at a min
8. as you say, you do not want to be in a position of owing him anything, life/mooney is going to be hard enough anyway.
9. This is just me thinking out aloud but can your name be removed from the mortgage but still stay on the house deeds - see 10 below
10. You def need to talk this thru with a solicitor...

Have a chat with a solicitor and take as much as you can from him.

Next time he just tries to abuse you again, which is what he is doing by the way, please just shout:

“FUCK.OFF” at him as firmly but also aggressively as you can. Only reply with “I don’t care. Stop talking. Shut the fuck up. What part of fuck off don’t you get. I DONT LIKE YOU AND I DON’T CARE. FUCK OFF”.

Seriously you need to be this aggressive because you clearly can’t do grey rock. a million time people have said to you here to shut him down and stop having conversations with him but you don’t seem to be doing that.

Guard your damn space.
Be aggressive about it.
he is attacking you and you are allowed to retaliate.

If he follows you or stops you leaving or tries to hug you or anything like that, call the damn police.

He's not an injured little birdie you have to be nice to. He’s an active threat you need to shut down.

Hi OP, hopefully you can get some good legal advice re practicalities. With regards to his behaviour and not leaving you alone etc. bluntly, he's either not right in the head or he's deliberately bullying you. Either way you can't reason with someone like this. Stop seeing him as a reasonable person, he isn't. The only thing you can do is keep your communication v brief and shut down any of his attempts to reel you in to more abuse. Do the grey rock thing, be very boring and very monotone and distant e.g. I'm not talking about that. I'm not discussing that. If he says XYZ about your perception and past abuse you say, I'm not having this conversation and you go to another room. He is trying to mess with your head.

"He’s so caught up with what everyone else might think of him he just keeps going round in circles saying he’s asked everyone else and they have told him he’s not scary or aggressive so it’s my ‘interpretation’ through a lens of PTSD that’s creating an ‘illusion’ of unsafety, he had written me a letter about all my past traumas and how they were worse than what he has done and he’s still wanting to support me on my healing journey etc etc but I had a month ago written him a long list of all his flaws and he can’t stop ruminating on it and me saying ‘I’m not responsible for your feelings’ apparently isn’t healthy in any relationship"

The man is an emotional/energy vampire. They get off from dragging people into long discussions about their feelings and they strenuously ignore boundaries. They ADORE it when they manage to pester the other person into getting upset.

Do you feel completely drained, fatigued, tense, confused, anxious, guilty, and brain fogged after such conversations?

I mean, I feel these feelings just reading your descriptions of these godawful ambushes. He's an emotional vampire. He's feeding off you. That's why he cheered up when you started crying.

The only way to deal with people like this is to get them out of your life as soon as possible, and in the interim, shut down every single attempt to drag you into another 'conversation': put your hand up, say curtly "I am not talking to you again about this", and WALK AWAY. Rinse and repeat. Every. Single. Time.

Every time he harries and pleads and cries and manages to get you involved in these ghastly onslaughts, he learns that harrying, pleading, and crying get him his fix of your emotional energy. You FEED him.

So cut off the tap.

These people are rude as hell, you don't have to be polite to them. He's going to drag your name through the mud no matter what you do, so just ignore him. He'll eventually stop and find someone else to feed off.

(Make sure he's not feeding off your kids)

I contacted our mortgage/financial advisor this afternoon. He had worked with both of us in the past and knows our situation and has our paperwork etc.

He’s trying to buy me out completely to take over the mortgage and yes, for £5,000 because that’s all he can raise. But he can’t take over the mortgage on his own on his salary as it is, so he’s apparently trying to find a way to do it.

to be honest the financial advisor was helpful and I think the word ‘delusion’ was just a word left unsaid.

there isn’t really another option. we need to sell up and no I couldn’t likely rent whilst I’m still on the mortgage and deeds and liable for the payments so I am stuck there until it sells.

My DC do not want to go onto a mortgage with me and I don’t blame them

Our redemption fee is £5k until the end of 2026.

I already know I am entitled to 50% of the equity as he never protected it. I’m not going to take it from him but also I am not going to walk away with £5k after putting a lot more than that in.

@PlaidJane As everyone else is saying - this is not the time and he is not the person to be doing any negotiating with - this is not your or his area of expertise - this is decided and agreed upon by people who know how execute the law - you don't have to discuss or agree anything with him - shut him down. He is an effing nightmare - gaslighting you at every opportunity. I wish you had someone else with you when he is relentlessly pushing his points of view in what seems to me to be such an intimidating way. Whatever you do - don't be an idiot - don't try and sort any of this out without working through solicitors. His decision over the house deposit is unfortunately for him, now something you may find useful to use as leverage in helping to force this relationship part - I know it's not in your nature, not what you want to do but this is a game of chess and you have to use every advantage that you have imho - he's not being nice about anything is he and I suspect even worse behaviour from him is yet to come; he can't be trusted - he's irrational, emotional and controlling - he is not used to you standing your ground - he won't like it.

Get all the money you are legally entitled to. You are worth far more than a measly amount. Don't forget pensions, savings, any hidden assets, plus the house. As you are married you are entitled to half as the starting point. Do not walk away with anything less.

Do not discuss sharing of assets with him. Do it all legally.

I can feel how exhausted and drained you are whenever you talk to him, I'm so so sorry. I've been there and know how much it fries your nervous system. I promise you it gets better (slowly!) once you stop caring about him.

Try to grey rock the things he says to needle you.

E.g. "I've asked XYZ and they said I'm not scary or angry at all!" = "they can marry you then". "Your PTSD is what's convin ed you to leave me" = "yes probably" (then don't say a word more). "I am more tired than you!" = "go to bed then and stop arguing with me"

I reached a point of exhaustion with my ex that left me too drained to talk. He definitely ramped up when the stuff he said to needle me stopped making me cry. I was just so checked out. However once he realised I was just empty and not going to respond any more, he backed off. These people FEED off attention, any attention, like it's a need and they will do and say whatever they have to to get reactions from you because it makes them feel in control I think. It's sick but they are sick. The only thing you can do is grey rock.