Might need to leave home tonight with DS, big fight with H!

[DexterMorgansmum]

Hi I have another thread on here that spans months where I have been waiting and biding my time till son finishes Nat 5s this May for us to leave home, or to ask H to leave - H also said he might leave in August. Things have been strained with some almost normal like days where conversation is pleasant, but some ugly scenes now and then
Think H thinks when push comes to shove we love him and hence we will stay - we do love him as family (with him 23 years) but I dont think we can stay anymore

Today, he had some sort of blow up verbally with DS15 (turns 16 this weekend !, and we are in Scotland) and he asked DS15 to stop rolling his eyes and show respect, he needs to study 2 hours a day etc the usual - suddenly I heard him from upstairs say to DS to leave home and come back when ready to apologise -its 8pm pitch dark cold and lonely at this time of year outside in west lothian outside edinburgh

I went with son which angered H further , we walked around the estate once and came back as I could not walk anymore in the cold - I promised him if he gave a fake apology for now, we could discuss what to do when back upstairs warm and dry
So, my son does not want to wait till summer hols and wants us to leave now - he has already texted his friend and said his father's body langauge was physically threatening toward me , his mum, when I said I was going to go out with him and would not let him walk around alone (instead of siding with H on the too harsh punishment)
I am thinking of either taking a taxi tomm morning and getting a hotel room near DS school as Nat 5 assignments this week and he cant take more than one day off I would have thought at max - or to wait till saturday and then we leave. Hotel till funds run out and find an air bnb /spareroom co.uk/ rental. as early as possible. I have told son if there is any intimidation by H tonight I will call the police , I almost think DS was planning to just stay out as late as he dared tonight if I had not gone with him, and how safe would that have been for him???
I cant let this go on.....

Even though I have known for a while H leaves me with no choice, my mind is still extremely confused about taking this step , now instead of slowly over the summer.
Any advice pls ?

The GP shadowing with my cousin at her practice in Birmingham was not glamourous either, turned out to be in a very very dodgy place - but very pleasantly surprised to see how much he enjoyed listening to the patients , taking their histories - apparently their socio economic problems were part of the conversation as much as their health - and he said he felt really really inspired to be able to feel as a GP he would be an ear and a voice for them !

Moments that keep me going in my life !!!!

My mood has turned now, thanks @TheSquareMile and @Flyndo

He said he has had enough of my stupid crap. He thinks even the Indian guys with SAHM wives struggling to get their UK work visas extended to stay here further, are luckier than him - despite me getting us here on my work visa, then Highly skilled migrant worker stay that I got, then PR then citizenship and it took me 10-12 years of 24/7 hard work to do that. But he still says they are luckier as their wife is not a shrew who also flirted with colleagues in the past. I completely do not agree with his POV at all

He asked for a number / to split assets and lets split

I told him he can move out to a flat or a bedsit or I can if he gives me half of the liquid savings as I am also paying school fees and mortgage currently and hence cash strapped

told him half the equity on this house is his, when we sell
half the savings are mine
he can have our son half the week if that's what my son wants and I won't try to alienate our son from him (he's doing that all on his own)

Despite me being the high earner throughout, plus doing most of the parenting and stuff around the house that was meaningful and constructive. All the love and care I poured on him for all of my 20s, most of my 30s...he says this marriage was a nightmare for him

Now I am waiting for him to transfer half the cash savings to my account so I can leave. or at least he can leave , as he has all the cash savings hoarded and can afford a rental deposit etc

Listening to him is heartbreaking every single time .....

OP, don't involve yourself in anything to do with finances, let the solicitor do that.

I have already had some legal advice this week on a few questions I sent over, apparently if he wants to follow through with the threat he had once made in 2016 'if you ever leave I will file for full custody just to make your life hell etc' he can STILL do it till DS is actually 18+ on the day he petitions for a court order. Meaning he could still try and get DS fully away by filing crap petitions in court , even if most likely they will be unsuccessful. He won't give us the money for anything useful, but he will blow it up if he decides to punish me.

It is extremely rare though for a court order to be mandated for an almost 17 year old but he could still try.

https://www.kilcoyne-solicitors.co.uk/legal-guides/a-guide-to-child-custody-agreements-in-scotland/
Are you reading advice for England? In Scotland your son decides from age 16. If there is no residence order it can't be extended either.

He would only be wasting money, your son would likely get free legal aid, very unlikely a court will rule against your son's wishes.

My DD is 13, she’s allowed to choose who she lives with. It’s surely impossible to force a child to live with a parent against their wishes.

Thanks I am getting another opinion next week, I was told it was the other way around, in Scotland it is court decided till 18 not 16 if parents do not agree, however it is very very rare and unlikely that the DCs wishes at age 16+ would not be the main consideration - so H would have to come up with something totally nasty to even try getting an order. Nasty and mostly fictitious

I just re-read the whole thread and realised I have not been completely honest re my fears and threats H has made in the past if I try taking his son or half 'his/the' property and wealth away.. I am sorry I was embarrassed to too much I guess and kept putting it off. I was struck by how kind posters have been despite me literally cycling like a washing machine on the EXACT SAME theme for 6 months now.

here is the rest of it - the threats he has made to get me to stay 2013-2016 -

1. When I wanted to leave in 2013 because there he had been abusive toward me even before son was born between 2004-2009 , he said I was having a cheap affair with my male colleague who was also BAME community like me. I was friends with this colleague and I did want to build something with someone nice who respected me, if I left H, as I was only 33 at that point and felt it was possible still - there was never a physical affair but, barely even an emotional one. But H said he would prove in court that an emotional affair had happened and that if it was an indian court I could even be jailed he said. I don't think this is true at all but in 2013, I was still an indian citizen and I tried getting advice but without actually being there, it was hard to know for sure what a legal outcome in courts there could be. I think an affair accusation leading to jail time sounds very farfetched, I do know justice could still be bought for money there though back when I lived there 20+ years ago, it is hard to know even now if that is still the case there, I don't know. I did talk to a lawyer in India for advice in 2016, my mum's friend, and she was reassuring.
2. In 2012 I was writing online on a fanfic'y place as an outlet , I have always liked creative writing. I was only 32 is my excuse, and a guy who introduced himself to me online, and was a fan of my writing (he also wrote on there) said he was 22 in uni and we were friends for a few weeks. No sexting but the stories I wrote were romantic fanfic, within a few weeks i found out through google that he was only 17 (aaaaaargh) not 22 and I scolded him for lying and said it was inappropriate and discontinued the chats. left the site too. STUPIDLY, i confessed to H and said omg the guy was only 17. H has used that in 2013-2016 to say a few times that he has a copy of all those messages on the fanfic website and he is going to file a custody case in India and in UK that I had chatted with a less than 18 yo in 2012 , to get full custody of then 3 year old DS , if I continued to want to leave the marriage. This terrified me in 2012 though logically I knew I should be reacting to H's threats with calmness. I still have PTSD from this

These are my fears why I didn't leave then, not just the 10 days kidnapping of DS in 2016 was the final get back in your box and shut up for 10 years at the very least moment.

I geniuinely thought I was a horrific human from all the above for a very very very extended period of time 2013-2023(?), recently I have to come think as silly and childish as the above 1 and 2 were of me (friendship with a male colleague, fanfic writing online, etc) I still should not have backed down at such threats.

Am I right to still be half scared of those threats? And wait till DS is 18 to leave H fully

Have you contacted any of the local (cultural) support groups for domestic abuse yet? I think they would really help you understand why you think certain ways.

Thank you I did contact one based on the links you had given me earlier, and they are the ones who have helped set up for legal advice , I did not tell them about 2012 and 2013 yet too embarrassed.

You don't need to tell anyone anything you're uncomfortable talking about. Writing anonymously is a useful tool.

We can't judge whether you're right to still be scared. You'll probably be back and forth about the 'right' time to leave until it happens. Has the support group spoken to you about that side of things? Can't remember whether you've looked into the Freedom Programme already - do they offer it? You could start with doing the online version, it's only £14.

OP, I think that you need better legal advice. You seem to be gathering titbits of information, not all of it accurate, from random people.

You really need to see a solicitor with an excellent track record in this kind of case.

I'm especially worried about what is happening financially. You are making yourself vulnerable to catastrophic loss at the moment and that will impact both you and your son.

I would get in touch with Brodies and see one of their solicitors next week.

https://brodies.com/expertise/individuals-and-families/contact-the-family-law-team/

Thanks I am speaking to two already. Remember though, they can only tell me something I fear is highly unlikely and remote to materialise, they cannot say for sure what H might try though. So I cannot expect them to have a crystal ball.

Outwardly it appears simple if H is okay with a separation now as he has been saying he is - then 50/50 assets sharing and contact arrangments for him with son are really easy and simple to agree and finalise, mediation is suggested unless cant be agreed at all and order required.

But, if he decides to file a bunch of spurious applications , no one can stop him.

I am trying to leave ...not amicably as impossible ....but also not in the same way as I tried and failed 2013-2016.

Its scary that both of you are not laughing at his threats and seem to think they could be potentially of concern though......

Are you a solicitor with Brodies @TheSquareMile

No, OP.

I do know that they would be an excellent choice for someone in your situation, though.

1. re the colleague at work. For sure, the one about adultery , physical or emotional or both, being illegal has to be frivolous - certainly in the UK, as have not seen any mention here, even of impact on custody let alone illegality of it - and in India, one of the current first ministers is having a full blown affair with a Bollywood actress, off the top of my head ! H is so believable though when he threatens

1. re As far as the person online in 2012, thought he was early twenties and I was only in my early 30s, nothing like sexting in chat, just general chat - never met him, it was an American site , he was not even in this country

This has to be something I should not have gotten terrified about as well, enough to stay. It was the kidnapping of DS in 2016 that was the main scare. Because right till then, I was asking to leave and offering upto 50/50 custody to show he would not be losing his son if he did not want to

He can threaten what he likes but I don't think he really understands how family court works.

I'm in England so my experience of family court may be different to how it works in Scotland. They are concerned with what's best for the child - child-led/child-centred - and this concern does not include whether or not a parent had an affair with somone.

Regarding the fanfic thing - presumably if you didn't know the person was a minor and you didn't speak to them inappropriately, there would be no evidence to show anything untoward. Even when police/CPS are dealing with adults who seek to groom minors, they have to prove that the person knew that they were talking to someone online who was a child. They can't just suspect that.

In my opinion, for what it is worth, your husbands allegations and accusations are things that he was upset and hurt about because he had lost control of you. He is using these things to threaten you, yet no one else would be interested or bothered by them.

My abuser did this to me a lot. He would always rant about and threaten me about things he perceived I had done wrong. I was eaten up by feelings of shame as if I had genuinely been a terrible person, or a bad mother or a horrible partner or whatever.... And it took me a long time to realise that while he may have believed the sh*t he was spouting and he may have been bothered by the things he accused me of, no one else was. No one else believed him and even if they did, they didn't care.

The idea that they have things to hold over us is used to wield power and control. They know it leads to fawning, freeze and compliance because you genuinely give value to their threats and believe others will too. It is what paralyses a victim and is the opposite of the empowerment they need.

The other thing that struck me just now is that H making all these threats to me about taking this to an Indian court so I would get the worst possible custody outcome of my son for my moral 'failings' in October 2016 -

But then coming along and giving up Indian citizenship for British passports in Oct 2017 makes no continued sense from his point of view?

India does not allow dual citizenship even though Britain does, so in fact we had to give up Indian citizenship to get the British one. Many ppl choose to keep the Indian one and let their spouse take the other one, so they have both sets of (property etc) rights in one household, but he did not....

So By 2017 he had forgotten half the threats he made the previous year to get me to stay (?!) , But I have not, for a single day I guess.....as i am posting online apparently about it ten years on.....

Thank you, yes - his words all completely shattered my confidence that I could get out there and adult on my own - or be a fit mother. This thread has turned into the deepest confessional for me. Thank you.

I’d just wait for 18 to avoid more problems. You’ve stuck it this far ….

Thanks for your post.

what a mess I have made of my life.....

Regarding the fanfic thing - presumably if you didn't know the person was a minor and you didn't speak to them inappropriately, there would be no evidence to show anything untoward. Even when police/CPS are dealing with adults who seek to groom minors, they have to prove that the person knew that they were talking to someone online who was a child. They can't just suspect that.

Yes, the messages if he did have a copy will show my horror and shock and disappointment when I found out the man/boy had been lying in 2012 and he was 17 not 22. Even though it was a friends thing, it immediately felt cringely ridiculous (when I think back now , even 22 was ridiculous I feel to actually bond with banter and chats with, but feels million times more embarrassing now in mid 40s then it did then even). And when he said I was his only friend and his home life was unhappy and tried to say that was why he had lied about his age, I explained even a friendship with a 17yo for an adult is a very grey area, and if he still needed advice (me giving advice, the blind leading the blind) to only reach out back to me when he was 18plus

He actually reached out on instagram in 2024, at almost 30, and said hello. was doing well, gf, job , life etc. Hardly an acquaintance even, but would vouch for my side of the story (also tried it on jokingly re how 15 years age gap now meant nothing to him and was I still in my horrible marriage - yes still here and still terrified, and no way, was I going to do anything to complicate my life yet again at this age).

Spent the whole evening relieving the embarrassment that is my life.

Good night & thanks to those who helped out, I think I will leave my ruminations again for a whole year now and leave the family home when DS finishes school and goes to uni.🙏🙏🙏