My partner doesn’t want to marry me, should I give an ultimatum or forget about it

[Bonnie2nd]

Before I begin, I’ll mention I’m ND and I really struggle with communicating and find it overwhelming having deep discussions as I can’t always process the words.
I have been with my partner for 4 years, we live together and we have a 1 year old.
We discussed early on that we wanted to get married asap and have a baby, due to us being in our 40s we chose to have a baby first before it was too late. Which was lucky because my menopause has since arrived.
He would talk about rings and how the wedding would look and that he couldn’t wait for me to be his wife. When baby was born he stopped talking about marriage. I forgot about it as I was so focused on my baby so I didn’t let it bother me.
Over time the realisation that he doesn’t want to marry me has crept in and I feel pretty low. I found this out when discussing a bill and the subject came up about needing to be married to do XYZ legally, and he said it didn’t matter as it would go in his will that I am entitled to do so. This flagged up as obvious he wouldn’t be marrying me.
He had an old friend visit to meet the baby and he asked my partner why he hadn’t proposed yet. My partner stayed silent and ignored the question.
We now have a ‘surprise’ wedding to go to in August and I know the guests will be asking why we’re not engaged yet or telling me I’ll be next and to catch the bouquet. The thought of that makes me feel completely rubbish knowing I’ll never experience a wedding or being a wife or sharing my child’s surname. I don’t even want to go to the wedding as I know I’ll feel sad for myself whilst happy for the couple.
I know weddings should come before babies but I’m so glad I had my baby first or I may have never experienced being a mother which is more important to me.
I just feel like I’ve wasted my time with the wrong person if he’s realised he doesn’t actually love me or want to marry me. It’s really embarrassing whenever relatives raise the subject and he doesn’t respond. He knows how I feel so it hurts more than he doesn’t consider my feelings. I think I’m beginning to resent him and I’m not sure if I can fully love someone who doesn’t want a marriage and for us to be a family.
How do I discuss this with him? I’m no good with words or confronting anyone. I know I’ll break down in tears and I don’t want a sympathy proposal, I’d say no. I’m not sure if I even want one anymore after the recent comments and actions.
Did anyone else go through this and did you stay with him or leave if he didn’t propose? Can you give up on the dream of a marriage and still stay together?
Thanks for reading

She's not forcing anything. And maybe he should have got out before having a child or living with her if he didn't want commitment.

I think it speaks volumes about your attitude to this, and backs up the cartoonist's point, that you think a woman who chooses not to stay with a man who prefers to be single than to be her husband - even after he agreed it was what he wanted - is "trying to force him to get married".

How would you suggest she ends this relationship, if it is not what she wants, in such a way that she wouldn't be trying to force a man to do something?

If anyone's trying to force or coerce anyone, I'd say it's the man who got a woman to agree to be his partner, domestic companion and mother to his child, on the basis of a promise he never intended to keep. And now hopes that the emotional and practical bonds of all that - and perhaps the idea that she can't leave or she'd be trying to force him into something - will keep her there anyway.

My point is this guy is going to be under intense pressure to get married. If he had total freedom to act he wouldn't be bothering.

So this thread is about forcing someone to get married despite the cartoon's message. All you're saying is "Ahh well she doesn't mean to force him". I didn't say she liked doing it, merely that it's happening.

If anyone's trying to force or coerce anyone, I'd say it's the man who got a woman to agree to be his partner, domestic companion and mother to his child, on the basis of a promise he never intended to keep.

I bet he didn't make any such promise. The OP is pretty unclear about this promise and if he was desperate to get married and have a kid the OP would would have simply said "Great, the registry office is booked for next month. As soon a that's done we'll TTC."

I'm pretty sure this "discussion" was the OP telling him her dreams and him awkwardly looking at his shoes in silence or perhaps nodding hoping she wouldn't turn on the waterworks. She then heard what she wanted to hear.

But yes. He 100% should stand by any commitments he made.

But she's under intense pressure to stay even though he's not committed and she's not protected. And unlike him, she's never lied about what she wants!

If he doesn't want to get married, he doesn't have to. It's not her fault if he feels "intense pressure" should she decide that if he'd rather be single than her husband, she'd rather be single herself.

He does have total freedom. Nobody is forcing him. He chose to agree to marriage, he chose to have a child. With choices come consequences. You can't seriously be suggesting that she pussyfoot around him her entire life, putting her desires and wishes on hold so that this guy should never, ever feel any "pressure" in doing whatever he wants no matter what his partner wants or what he already chose to do?

And "trying to force a man to get married" were your exact words!

Quite apart from being dishonest and selfish, I find this attitude so weak and unmanly. A man can choose to have a child and agree to a commitment but must never again ever be made to feel that there are any consequences to this, or that he doesn't have "total freedom". He should be a man, own his choices and take the consequences... and if that means feeling "pressure" because the woman he lied to and impregnated decides that there are circumstances under which she'd rather be single too, then so bloody be it.

I bet he didn't make any such promise.

From the OP: "He would talk about rings and how the wedding would look and that he couldn’t wait for me to be his wife."

This is perfect.

dont throw in the stuff about the surprise wedding etc. keep it about you two only. Be prepared to listen. Ask: what wedding would be ok for you? ask for his concerns (might be cost etc).

Semantics.

The cartoon says men don't get forced to get married.

Ths thread is about man being forced to get married.

Underneath it is a list of other threads about women trying to get men to marry them.

The cartoon is wrong.

Yeah becaise men talk about weddings all the time! 🤣

If this guy wanted to get married they would already be married. Clearly he never offered any convincing commitment to get married, if he had she'd have said yes and booked it.

I'm sure he's guilty of not being crystal clear he didn't want to get married, but that's not the same as promising to get married.

The more you post, the clearer it is that you basically think men should be allowed to string women along, have children as they please, and women should never, ever make them feel there are any consequences to this or that they don't have "total freedom". Nobody else should factor in their decisions.

OP is also allowed to decide that she'd rather be single. That you can't conceptualise this as anything other than "trying to force a man", because that's how you see female agency, is nobody else's failing. Hell, OP gave clear examples of him expressing desire to get married and you still sat there and said you bet it didn't happen.

The cartoon is about you. Of course you don't recognise it.

Well, you have a lot to say about it!

If this guy wanted to get married they would already be married.

Well, we agree on this. If he'd rather be single than OP's husband, nobody will frogmarch him down the aisle. But she's also allowed to decide she'd rather be single and that's not "forcing" him into anything. He can make his choices, he can't stop others from making theirs.

If he wants his total freedom so much then why would he feel any pressure?

The more you post, the clearer it is that you basically think men should be allowed to string women along, have children as they please, and women should never, ever make them feel there are any consequences to this or that they don't have "total freedom".

I think nobody should have children without being married. That makes the "consequences" up front, and nobody can feel pressured.

The guy accepts the consequences in a way nobody can dispute then has the children.

This way we're into a debate about what he promised - it's a mess. If they'd got married first we'd know exactly what he promised, nobody gets strung along, clarity all round.

She’ll need his consent to change the baby’s surname, if he has PR.

But you also say men aren't interested in marriage, which is odd when they're still the ones to propose it most of the time. According to your posts, it's only about about sex and children. They have no other reason for interest in it.

I think it's a shame that you've never formed any deeper sort of connection with a woman, but if that's your experience then I suppose at least you enjoy the total freedom and no pressure that you find so important. To thine own self be true. But I do also wonder how old you are, because the older I get, the clearer it seems to me that men are actually terrible at being alone and that's one reason they often seem to move on so quickly when a relationship ends, and have created such a huge, huge market for female company that clearly isn't only about sex.

And you need to drop this idea that a woman deciding to ditch a man who's only lukewarm about her is her trying to force him into anything. Women have needs and desires of their own and they can choose to be single too.

@ThatCyanCat you seem to have spectacularly missed my point. She should not give an ultimatum at all. She should leave. State why and go. If he wants to marry her he’ll soon show it - if not she makes her life accordingly

But you also say men aren't interested in marriage, which is odd when they're still the ones to propose it most of the time.

Then we're in agreement. When an completely unforced proposal arrives, make children after marriage a condition of accepting that proposal. Happy men. Happy women. Happy children. 🎉

Maybe I’m not romantic, but this couple have already made a commitment by having a child together so they are stuck in each other’s lives for a long time regardless.

What they need to do is decide how they want to organise this, financially and legally.

Whether that involves a wedding and choosing napkins or a civi partnership or some other agreement is beside the point. They need to sort this out.

We're in agreement that men who want to marry get married, and it's better, where possible, to marry before having children.

We are sure as fuck not in agreement about thd nature of marriage , whether a man is entitled to experience "total freedom" and "no pressure" after having a child and promising to marry the mother, and whether a woman who also exercises her right to be single is "trying to force a man" into anything. We're also not in agreement that a discussion about marriage, and a man subsequently discussing rings and making the woman his wife, isn't expressing a clear desire to have it happen.

And to be clear, he is of course free not to marry her even after agreeing that he wanted to. But the idea that he should be able to do this without her saying or doing anything in response that might make him feel bad ("no pressure")? No way.

"promising to marry the mother" -- Hence the need to do the marriage first. Otherwise one person is claiming there was a promise and the other is claiming there wasn't.

So:
Man: I promise to marry you.
Woman: Great, I've booked it next month.
Man: OK.

10 months later child is born too a married couple. Nobody has doubts about what was indicated in a "discussion". Job jobbed.

Marriage takes all the ambiguity out of it.

Would you now be happy if he did propose in next 6 months? Or do you feel resentful he's sort of left you hanging?

The best thing would be to try very hard to have the calm practical series of conversations about marriage and when it's happening even though that is really hard for you to do.

The other practical thing to do is act like you will end up a single parent and make sure you protect your assets and employment prospects as much as possible.

The PA/childish response would be to start to drop hint/jokes you don't see this as a long term relationship - you are keeping your options open - and see what reaction you get. In fact if people ask when you getting married - reponses along those line would be in keeping - as a mind your own to them and as a dig at your other half. I've seen that done - not sure it led to happy outcomes even when a propsal did happen.

I suspect it's tempting to stay and hope - but if marriage is off the cards other pratcial things like wills and pension and housing can still be talked about and sorted out. As other have said civil partnership is another option or just a registry office wedding. Maybe if marriage is to much broach some of those - and make sure he understands tax implications around inheritance and estates PP mentioned.

Unfortunately PP knew better than I did - legally she can’t without his permission if he has parental authority. I thought only a married father could dispute a name change.

This is a warning to all women whose partners will not marry them even when their baby is born - give the baby your name. He cannot do anything about it at that point. You are in control, but you can’t change it later without his permission.

I’ve just responded to another response to
me - a PP pointed out that she can’t do this now if he has parental authority. So yes, the name registration after birth is crucial - it should be her name.

I agree that this trend of blokes getting everything their way needs to stop. Women, wake up. Demand more respect and stop putting yourself in a vulnerable position. If he won’t marry you, and you still want DC with him (why???) they should have your name.

If he won’t marry you, and you still want DC with him (why???) they should have your name.

No. No marriage. No children.

If he still doesn't want marriage as part of the "children package" then he clearly didn't have enough commitment for the children.

Names means little or nothing.

I told my husband I wanted to get married and we got married. it
doesn’t have to be an ultimatum

I don’t understand the whole “man has to propose or it’s embarrassing”. Also don’t understand baby having father’s surname.