My partner doesn’t want to marry me, should I give an ultimatum or forget about it

[Bonnie2nd]

Before I begin, I’ll mention I’m ND and I really struggle with communicating and find it overwhelming having deep discussions as I can’t always process the words.
I have been with my partner for 4 years, we live together and we have a 1 year old.
We discussed early on that we wanted to get married asap and have a baby, due to us being in our 40s we chose to have a baby first before it was too late. Which was lucky because my menopause has since arrived.
He would talk about rings and how the wedding would look and that he couldn’t wait for me to be his wife. When baby was born he stopped talking about marriage. I forgot about it as I was so focused on my baby so I didn’t let it bother me.
Over time the realisation that he doesn’t want to marry me has crept in and I feel pretty low. I found this out when discussing a bill and the subject came up about needing to be married to do XYZ legally, and he said it didn’t matter as it would go in his will that I am entitled to do so. This flagged up as obvious he wouldn’t be marrying me.
He had an old friend visit to meet the baby and he asked my partner why he hadn’t proposed yet. My partner stayed silent and ignored the question.
We now have a ‘surprise’ wedding to go to in August and I know the guests will be asking why we’re not engaged yet or telling me I’ll be next and to catch the bouquet. The thought of that makes me feel completely rubbish knowing I’ll never experience a wedding or being a wife or sharing my child’s surname. I don’t even want to go to the wedding as I know I’ll feel sad for myself whilst happy for the couple.
I know weddings should come before babies but I’m so glad I had my baby first or I may have never experienced being a mother which is more important to me.
I just feel like I’ve wasted my time with the wrong person if he’s realised he doesn’t actually love me or want to marry me. It’s really embarrassing whenever relatives raise the subject and he doesn’t respond. He knows how I feel so it hurts more than he doesn’t consider my feelings. I think I’m beginning to resent him and I’m not sure if I can fully love someone who doesn’t want a marriage and for us to be a family.
How do I discuss this with him? I’m no good with words or confronting anyone. I know I’ll break down in tears and I don’t want a sympathy proposal, I’d say no. I’m not sure if I even want one anymore after the recent comments and actions.
Did anyone else go through this and did you stay with him or leave if he didn’t propose? Can you give up on the dream of a marriage and still stay together?
Thanks for reading

When you look at divorce rates for Lesbians it's pretty clear why that convention came about. Women would be popping the question on the third date.

Our ancestors knew what they were doing. Man asks and woman refuses sex before marriage solves all the problems that crop up in these threads.

I stated I wanted to get married 5yrs in. I gave the ultimatum after 9yrs and 1 child; marry me or I walk.

Not the sexiest way to get engaged, but hey... The heart wants what it wants (and sometimes men need a kick to decide) 😅🤷‍♀️.

I'd give the ultimatum!

Agree. It doesn’t sound like he ever proposed.

Hang on…. “Unless the asssets were yours when you came into the relationship, these are all good reasons to be married…..”

So, if the assets are all hers then she would be absolutely justified in not getting married- but if the assets are all his, then he is being unreasonable not to marry her…. How is that right? Either marriage is necessary to protect both parties and just as important regardless of who held the greater assets before marriage, in which case it would make no difference to your stance who came with greater assets, or it is fine for either party to protect their financial interests.

The reality here is we don’t know that he definitely does not want to marry her, and if he doesn’t want to her marry her, she doesn’t know why. It could be that he has been leading her on all this time, it could be that when he said he wanted to marry OP that he did but something has changed for him, or it could be he does still want to but is worried about something- e.g. being able to afford the wedding they’ve planned. Until OP broaches it, she will not know.

Hello OP, are you here, what are your thoughts?
Hope you are ok.

You can’t actually do that though

You said it yourself, marriage comes first, then a baby. There was no need for a wedding, you could have had a simple ceremony with no frills during pregnancy. But that’s done now.

I’d absolutely say it’s a deal breaker for you, you are very vulnerable unmarried. You have time to rebuild but if you spend the next 15 years with this man you have very little financial security, he can pull the rug from under you and you have no legal protection.

There's a massive difference between separating from your partner and depriving a child from his/her father. Many people have separated in civilised manner and continue to be active parents raising their children. Unless the father is abusive/violent or neglects the child I would never encourage a mum to deprive a child from the father.

Suggesting he was lukewarm or suggesting he did not actively agree to having a baby is saying you do not believe what OP has posted here.

In other words: calling her a liar.

Hello everyone. I’m sorry it took so long to come back, I have spent the last hour thinking about what to write as there is so much to take in from these comments and I’ve been quite emotional today.
Thank you to those who have been kind and also mentioned my writing, I rely heavily on written form as I struggle with speaking often so it’s nice to know I can do something right lol.
I’ll try and answer all of the questions that have been brought up, sorry if I miss any out.
The house is mine and I have my own money. We don’t share finances or a bank account. I don’t NEED him, I wanted him, but I can certainly survive without him. I pay all of my own bills. I know this will raise some eyebrows but I am independent and I’ve never relied on a man and I don’t plan on starting now. I may seem vulnerable but underneath I am strong and competent. I would never put myself in a position to risk being homeless or without money.
When my partner and I met it was a whirlwind of lust and the honeymoon phase was incredible up to a year later. He is nothing like that person anymore. We’ve got comfortable and obviously now having a child taking all of our attention (and energy) it has paused any romantic side of the relationship. We haven’t had sex for 6 months and before that it was a handful of times over the course of a year. This is what made me begin questioning if he loved me or wanted to be with me as most men would be happy with an offer of sex whenever they wanted. When he started turning me down I stopped asking and it’s caused me to hate myself and my body as I gained 4 stone due to health issues in my pregnancy and being rejected physically makes me more aware of my changes. I’m still trying to lose the weight and I know I look awful so perhaps he’s gone off of me because of my appearance.
I didn’t want to make the thread about the sex issues though, I know the two issues combined make it more likely he just doesn’t want to marry me because he’s gone off of me. My friend told me there is something called a Madonna whore complex which frankly makes me feel ill.
When the first ever discussion of marriage came up he told me he couldn’t wait for our future, getting married and having children.
I noticed a poster said I lied and that he never said these things but he did. No he has never proposed but this is why I posted. He verbally planned our future without persuasion but he didn’t take action.
He showed me 3 rings and wanted my approval, he had my ring finger sized, he said he’s going to surprise me with the most romantic proposal. All of this naturally made me happy and excited. But none of it happened. We looked at venues online and chose one, he said he’d opened an account to add savings to for the wedding. I happily went along as he took control of it all and I had no reason to doubt him. Again it stopped there and didn’t progress further.
When we spoke about a timeline, due to our ages and that I wasn’t ovulating regularly we decided to TTC instantly and get married when the baby arrived. The excitement of a baby overtook me after longing for one for so long, that the wedding was pushed to the back of my mind. When I actually got pregnant naturally that month I was so shocked and happy I was in baby obsessed mode.
I didn’t want to get married whilst pregnant, I wanted to experience my wedding day looking and feeling amazing. I had an awful pregnancy and spent most of it bed bound. The wedding wasn’t even considered by either of us at that point as we were stressed, tired and focusing on our baby.
I haven’t forced or coerced my partner into marriage, I left it all in his hands, we haven’t even spoken about it or the comments people have made about it. I’ve never pushed it. I stayed confident it would still happen, and our baby had his surname as I knew (at that time) we’d be married soon after so it would save the effort of changing the birth certificate again. He does have PR. In hindsight I shouldn’t have done this but I didn’t expect things to change.
It hurts when other people raise the subject as even some of his family have lectured him that he’s being selfish by not giving our child security, it makes me feel humiliated like I’m not good enough to be a wife.
Im very good at judging people by body language and he gives off energy of annoyance whenever someone mentions marriage now. If he doesn’t want to marry me I will have to accept it but it will destroy me. I don’t think we would last as the resentment would eat at me. I’d rather be single, at my age I don’t need the hassle of men and their childish ways.
it’s about the marriage for me, not the wedding. I’m too old to want the big white wedding and having guests scares me as I hate social situations or talking publicly. All I would have wanted was a lovely dress to feel confident and beautiful for one day. The rest I didn’t even consider.
I will write down what I want to say to him as some of you have suggested. I’m not sure when or how I will talk to him about this. I feel oddly very nervous and expecting to hear the words I suspect to come. I know I need to do it, for my baby if not for myself, but it’s really hard to face reality sometimes.
My abusive mother told me as a child I was unlovable and I’ll die alone, I have the fear that she was right.
Thank you all again for responding and being there for me.

From your update you sound wonderful. Don't give what your mother has said any more headspace.
Concentrate on you and your child. It sounds like he has checked out of this relationship already. It's better to be happy in your home with your child than with a man who doesn't really want what you want.

Op, whatever you do, have some dignity and do not propose to him as some pps suggested. Don't. You will regret it because the relationship will not last.
Why don't you concentrate on getting yourself back to being healthy and happy in your own body and mind? I think you need to park the idea of marriage for a while and sort the relationship issues you both are having. I wouldn't want to feel like I'm pressuring anyone to marry me. You don't want to feel he proposed because he was pressured to do so. No good will come out of it.
Did you speak to him about lack of intimacy?

I noticed a poster said I lied and that he never said these things but he did.

OP, that poster pretty much admitted that he has no concept of marrying someone for love and he thinks it's fine for men to choose to be single but a woman who does the same is only "trying to force" a man to get married. He can't understand loving a woman and he can't understand women making choices that aren't geared around men getting to do whatever the fuck they want. You can safely ignore anything he has to say on this matter.

As for your mother, she was wrong too. Completely. That is an evil thing to say to a child and it is not true. However painful it is, your worth is not defined by whether or not you are married. Plenty of people do not have a partner, it does not mean they are alone. It really is better to be single than with a man who doesn't care about you.

If he doesn’t want to marry me I will have to accept it but it will destroy me

It will not. You are so much stronger than you think you are. I agree you need to focus on looking after yourself first. That is far more important than discussing marriage. As soon as you let go of the need to be married or proposed to you will feel so powerful and free.

@Bonnie2nd you seem to be presuming a lot about how he feels about you, love, sex etc.

have you had actual conversations with him? Was the sex before conceiving bountiful?

Have you asked him ‘hey I love you and I’m wondering why we aren’t intimate more often, I’ve started to feel it’s because you don’t find me physically attractive since having our child.’.

You (in the nicest possible way) sound like you have some insecurities (don’t we all) and I wonder if these are leading you.

Maybe he also has insecurities and is worried about making you feel pressurised for sex? Maybe he’s struggling with something as well.

an - ‘I love you but better communication between us is inportant and on that note - so is marriage..’ conversation is long overdue.

what have you got to lose? It’s like you are setting the relationship up to fail if you don’t even discuss stuff with him.

Im a rually struggling to see what he contributes to your life and your child’s, and shy you'd want to marry him.

My point still stands in terms of financial risk. If you marry him and a year down the line you divorce, he is entitled to half of your house. It sounds like you had the asset pre relationship therefore whilst he is entitled to it after marriage, it doesn’t mean it’s right. I think being in your 40’s, you need to review the financial risks of marriage, especially considering your further update of the current state of your relationship. He’s given you a chance of being a Mummy at pretty much the latest point possible for your body and all the wonderful things that brings. However you deserve more than this man. Don’t risk your financial future with him by being so focused on marriage if his financial status doesn’t match yours

No, it really isn't. There is often differences in what we perceive to be happening (especially when we are being swept up in the happiness of something) and actually seeing the reality of that is going down. That isn't someone being a liar, that is someone giving their own perspective. It sounds like he was in the honeymoon period, was getting sex and wanted it to continue, so was happy to go with the tide and say/do whatever. But was he really into it all beyond the sex and feelings of being with a new person? I don't think so.

@Bonnie2nd PLEASE PLEASE think with your head not your heart. You are independent, you have an asset (house) that you own that enables that independence. Do you know how amazing that is??

⚠️ DO NOT PUT IT UP AT 50% RISK ⚠️

It is such a dangerous thing to do. It's the most wreckless expensive gamble you will ever make. Since prenups are not legally binding in the UK either and the default divorce stance is 50/50. Would you be able to start over with only half the value of your house and maintain the same level of property/lifestyle etc?

I'm 37, own my own house and will never get married because of this. It means I won't ever get the lovey dovey experience and the wedding day, and the "my husband" etc but my ability to be independent is worth its weight in gold and it would be monumentally daft to risk it for anyone. (No matter what that someone says!)

(I've only read the OPs posts not the full thread.)

OP, thank you for updating.

Well: you are strong and successful and your baby has you for security and stability.

I can see why the pull of marriage is so strong for you given your mother’s terrible emotional abuse.

However, right now, marriage poses a risk to you. I wouldn’t be giving any man an ultimatum in which I was giving him half my house!

For now, I would drop the idea of marriage and look after yourself. Adopt a healthy eating plan, NOT in pursuit of looking attractive for him, but as a way of nurturing yourself, looking after your own body, looking after the health of your child’s Mum, doing it for you in a positive way.

Also , relationships do not need marriage in order to thrive, or in order to validate the commitment. The individuals within the relationship do that, through love and care.

Are you a team? Is he your rock and you his? Do you both have care and consideration?

It sounds as if the realities of pregnancy and having a baby have chipped away at your relationship- hardly surprising, it is a challenging process.

You need a relationship more than you need marriage, but on the other hand you need your independence more than you need a bad relationship!

You are good with written words. Write it all down for him, but focussing on how you can work together to see what has changed.

@Bonnie2nd your mother was a nasty bitch and that comment says more about who she was than who you are .

You won’t die alone you have your child you own wee family and I am sure you have friends .
Men aren’t everything !

I didn’t understand about the sex . Is it you who didn’t want it for 6 months ? But now you do and he rejects you is that right ?

While reading i thought i wouldn’t commit to marrying some one if it was looking to be a sexless marriage . It seem though that you feel it’s your change in body, is that your insecurities do you think or his change of attraction to you .
You have been through a lot with a new baby

The thing is it’s all been so quick so you haven’t had any length of time to build something stronger than sex and body attraction .

Maybe he felt like marriage in the deep throws of lust or maybe it was all words. .
Do you really know him enough to know which one it was? Was he ever a marriage person?

Don’t key anyone make you feel shit about yourself . You deserve better !

What does he pay for ? Does he pay for his child ?

I think you sound like a lovely, reasonable, strong woman. You are financially stable. You have a child. You have a lot going for you. I think you should continue to work on yourself and the things that make you happy.
Do you want to marry your partner because you love each other or other people expect it or because it is the practical thing to do?
I do think writing down your thoughts and communicating that way might help you. Give him some time to think about things and suggest you sit down to talk about things at a specific date and time.
You mentioned not sharing the same last name as your child- you could change or hyphenate your child's name if you wanted. Just a suggestion that isn't marriage based.

Hi OP.

Your mother was a cruel woman. You know that because you would never say that to your child. You are a mother now and have your own little family. You will have friends and colleagues and your baby.

He's obviously gone to great lenghts to promise everything, but now has withdrawn and gets cross when the subject comes up and not just when you mention it. He won't talk about it. I think this points to the fact that he is very unreliable. He may say he wants to be a great father/partner - but he's not showing it. The extensive lenghts he's gone to in the past to plan weddings/rings etc... and then never delivered make him a very untrustworthy person. His promises ( and marriage is essentially a promise) are meaningless and don't stand the test of time.
He seems to have checked out and there is no intimacy. You feel very unloved and rejected. So it makes sense to consider the current relationship as it is now, instead of the previous honeymoon phase.

Currently you are financially independent. You own your own house and you pay all the bills. You have had a beautiful, longed for, baby. All of these are huge positives, the building blocks of a happy lifetime.

You from the sound of it do most of the childcare. Do you have any support from friends/family - if not you should start going to baby groups and making new local friends - What does he do?
He currently lives rent free, bill free - what does he contribute to the upkeep of your child? You said he was going to save for the wedding. What has happened to that account? Does he help with childcare/shopping/coooking/share household chores/plan days out/holidays/ go to family gatherings/plan and celebrate birthdays?

Does he give you the chance to have time to exercise, go to the gym or a class to tone up after the birth? It's quite common to put on weight after the birth if you have no time to yourself and many sleepless nights. But people do recover once the baby gets into a good routine. Who deals with the baby in the night? Is it equally shared?

you haven't reallly mentioned this side of things.. but I would expect that someone who has checked out or is checking out... is not pulling their weight. I could be wrong of course.

Even if he suddenly proposed, I don't think the relationship is in the right place for it at this moment in time, unless he suddening stops being withdrawn and uncommunicative.

Marriagewise, if he gets the talk and then gives in... there's no guarantee that he really wants to long term. All the evidence of his current behaviour is against that . Rent free , bill free and fatherhood without the effort is very attractive in the short term.
You'd be marrying for the wrong reasons and putting yourself at great financial risk - (no risk at all on his part) which would slash your independence in half and make things difficult with parenting. As you' have a child to look after... you now have to take the finance side very very seriously. The child's future is your priority.

I think you need to think very seriously about this. Marriage can be wonderful.. but not if you are married to someone who is not fully invested in it.. it can be a misery.
You are young and could go on to find a more fulfilling relationship.
The best thing you could do at the moment is get some counselling for yourself to talk it through and make some of your own decisions... and then try to get him to communicate. If he won't/doesnt want to...and won't say why he's unwilling to communicate with you, then both you and your child are better off building a life of your own. But talk it through with someone professional in real life, it's a big decision and from the sound of the way your mother treated you, you do need some help to overcome the pain that caused and to realise that you have a right to be treated fairly in any relationship, romantic or otherwise.
I wish you all the best with your decision.

Very Good Advice.

OP, you sound wonderful.

I know this thread is about the fact you really want him to want to marry you, but...

...are you completely sure you want to marry him?

He doesn't sound very supportive of you, nor kind. Hopefully a conversation will help, as all of this could be misunderstandings and awkwardness. I am pretty sure you'd be fine without him though, you sound capable and strong.