My partner doesn’t want to marry me, should I give an ultimatum or forget about it

[Bonnie2nd]

Before I begin, I’ll mention I’m ND and I really struggle with communicating and find it overwhelming having deep discussions as I can’t always process the words.
I have been with my partner for 4 years, we live together and we have a 1 year old.
We discussed early on that we wanted to get married asap and have a baby, due to us being in our 40s we chose to have a baby first before it was too late. Which was lucky because my menopause has since arrived.
He would talk about rings and how the wedding would look and that he couldn’t wait for me to be his wife. When baby was born he stopped talking about marriage. I forgot about it as I was so focused on my baby so I didn’t let it bother me.
Over time the realisation that he doesn’t want to marry me has crept in and I feel pretty low. I found this out when discussing a bill and the subject came up about needing to be married to do XYZ legally, and he said it didn’t matter as it would go in his will that I am entitled to do so. This flagged up as obvious he wouldn’t be marrying me.
He had an old friend visit to meet the baby and he asked my partner why he hadn’t proposed yet. My partner stayed silent and ignored the question.
We now have a ‘surprise’ wedding to go to in August and I know the guests will be asking why we’re not engaged yet or telling me I’ll be next and to catch the bouquet. The thought of that makes me feel completely rubbish knowing I’ll never experience a wedding or being a wife or sharing my child’s surname. I don’t even want to go to the wedding as I know I’ll feel sad for myself whilst happy for the couple.
I know weddings should come before babies but I’m so glad I had my baby first or I may have never experienced being a mother which is more important to me.
I just feel like I’ve wasted my time with the wrong person if he’s realised he doesn’t actually love me or want to marry me. It’s really embarrassing whenever relatives raise the subject and he doesn’t respond. He knows how I feel so it hurts more than he doesn’t consider my feelings. I think I’m beginning to resent him and I’m not sure if I can fully love someone who doesn’t want a marriage and for us to be a family.
How do I discuss this with him? I’m no good with words or confronting anyone. I know I’ll break down in tears and I don’t want a sympathy proposal, I’d say no. I’m not sure if I even want one anymore after the recent comments and actions.
Did anyone else go through this and did you stay with him or leave if he didn’t propose? Can you give up on the dream of a marriage and still stay together?
Thanks for reading

Depriving a child of a father is the worst thing a woman can do. (Not my personal view, but the prevailing social winds).

Now just look at the thread about estranged fathers 'giving away' their daughters at weddings. The number of posters who are estranged from their fathers is terribly sad, and gives a good insight into which demographic more commonly gives up and walks away from their own children.

The same demographic is generally given a pass for doing exactly that.

Absolutely not. I did that with my long-term boyfriend in my 20’s when he categorically stated he never wanted to get married. He was in the Army at the time and would keep moving on every three years. I couldn’t understand how our relationship would work if we weren’t ever together. I gave him an ultimatum and he reluctantly agreed to get married. Big mistake, huge…. I ended up married to someone who did not want to be married and who made no effort to be a good husband. The whole thing was a shit show almost from the off and I told him I wanted a divorce after a year together and left him (we lived in Germany) after another six months of hell trying marriage counselling and living with someone who now hated me in a country where I had no friends or family to support me. It was a horrible experience for everyone concerned and I truly regret pushing for it. A real tale of be careful what you wish for. Please think carefully about what you want before broaching the subject with him. It sounds like he hasn’t stated out loud that he doesn’t want to get married (unless I’ve misunderstood). You seem to have assumed that’s how he feels based on his silence when other people mention getting engaged. It could just mean he doesn’t want to discuss personal matters with them but would he have an honest conversation with you? Either way, be very sure of what you want and what’s best for your child before you try to talk to him. I hope you find happiness, in whatever form that takes.

Why do you have to wait for him to propose?
If it was decided you would marry, but wanted the baby first that means your engaged already. Just say that you'd like to start booking it now.
Or if not, you need to have a real conversation about why his feeling have now changed and how that's made you feel. If you can't manage to speak, wrote him a letter and be there when he reads it.

Agreed. Just why? I never changed my name when we were married, much less when we weren't, and have never used the titled 'Mrs'. I just cannot get my head around this antiquated custom.

DC has both names.

It literally is what happened.

It’s clearly stated in OP:

”We discussed early on that we wanted to get married asap and have a baby, due to us being in our 40s we chose to have a baby first before it was too late”

Some people want a traditional white wedding which generally take more than 30 days to arrange. Is there a reason you are determined to think OP is a liar?

Or why you are determined to view OP as being in the wrong if she chooses to walk from a relationship when the terms of what was agreed has changed.

This was my reaction. You're reading between the lines a lot OP.

'When baby was born he stopped talking about marriage.'
'The realisation that he doesn’t want to marry me has crept in'
'An old friend asked my partner why he hadn’t proposed yet. My partner stayed silent '
'I feel like I’ve wasted my time if he’s realised he doesn’t actually love me or want to marry me.'

That's a lot of supposition to make you wonder whether you even love him any more! If I were him, I'd be horrified to get an ultimatum like that out of the blue.

Is it literally just about him not proposing... or is it that you don't feel as close as you used to? Most couples aren't as affectionate, romantic, or even interested in each other after having children as they used to be. When you're completely focused on a small child, and keeping the whole show of job, bills, mortgage etc on the road, taking each other for granted comes with the territory unfortunately.

But these things can be regained. The best place to start when you want to feel closer is to talk gently but honestly with each other about how you feel. I really like @Cardinalita90's idea of writing a letter, if you feel you wouldn't be able to find the right words face-to-face. A lot of us can't, ND or not.

My point is, you don't need to take the nuclear option of an ultimatum. Or equally, resign yourself to a life of quiet despair at feeling unvalued in your relationship.

Find out what's on his mind. It may or may not be what you think. If it is, and it's a deal-breaker for you and your child, then at least you aren't making life-changing decisions based on a misunderstanding.

And remember when you go to someone else's big fancy wedding - it doesn't prove anything at all about how much they're loved, or who will stay the distance.

OP propose to him!

Married ASAP is 29 days. They didn't get married in 29 days.

So clearly they didn't both agree to get married ASAP, someone wanted a delay or to not bother at all.

And frankly that sentence doesn't even say it. "We discussed" doesn't mean "we both categorically agreed".

You need to talk to him. I think a lot of people don't consider marriage important anymore. I know loads of people in long term relationships that aren't interested in getting married. This doesn't mean they don't love each other but both parties are on the same page re marriage. Make sure you have tenancy in common to protect your half of the house. Marriage really is a contract, it's not a romantic thing, it does protect you financially but it doesn't mean your going to be together forever as half end in divorce.

I really don't want to stick the boot into OP, but I don't understand why unmarried women give their children their partners surname? Once married its really easy to change the child's surname to the married name but not possible to do the other way around without the partners consent. I was really clear with DH that I wanted to be married before children but that if we weren't then baby would have my surname until we did 🤷‍♀️

I gave him an ultimatum and he reluctantly agreed to get married. Big mistake, huge…

Really good point.

If he's forced to marry someone to remain in his child's life he's going to be miserable and resent that person right up until the divorce when the child leaves home.

Who says “married asap is 29 days”?

Where is this stated? What law are you quoting?

It clearly says they discussed and agreed on marriage - why are you insistent that OP is lying?

Seems like your position is the man should have what he wants and OP should put up or shut up.

Can you at least accept that if he does not want marriage and OP does it is fine for her to exit this relationship and seek somebody who wants want she wants?

I googled. Quickest marriage in the UK is 29 days.

And I didn't say lying.

Propose to him? Then you have your answer.

What does quickest marriage have to do with saying “marrying asap is 29 days”.

Where is it written the collectively agree definition of what marrying “asap” is?

Average time to marry in the UK is 4.9 years (after meeting).

https://metro.co.uk/2017/07/20/how-long-is-the-average-couple-together-before-they-get-married-6793590/amp/

So 1 year could be “asap”, 2 years could be “asap”.

Your definition of “asap” is not the definition.

We know he agreed to marry post baby and now he has changed his mind. If she is being coercive by giving an ultimatum post baby then he was equally coercive by changing his view on marriage post baby.

You have said she is lying or at least suggested she is.
You don’t believe he agreed to marry which means you think OP is lying.

No. ASAP does mean 29 days. That's the soonest possible. We can add a fiddle factor but if they had really agreed to be married ASAP they would certainly have been married two months later.

Someone didn't want to get married ASAP.

Do you want a wedding or a marriage?
If its a wedding, then that's a tricky argument. And plenty of men (and women) don't want the expense/hassle of a huge event.
If its a marriage, then there are a great number of practical implications to not being married. Find some articles (I think even Martin Lewis has offered advice on the importance), your common law rights are not what you would expect, and should anything happen to either of you, the remaining party would be at a disadvantage compared to were you married.
Have a practical discussion about the legal advantage, of course be honest about your own personal needs as well.
But I would focus on the marriage and not the wedding. the wedding you can agree on afterwards.

I think it's difficult when you have a child so early on in a relationship with someone. You don't really know each other and are still in the honeymoon period. Perhaps he's realised that marriage/long term isn't something he wants now. I think before you sit down and talk to him, you need to figure out whether or not marriage is a deal breaker. Then take it from there.

I don't think the pp is saying that the OP is a liar as such. I think they're more thinking along the lines of who lead this marriage then baby conversation and who was the one silently nodding along. Which was shit of him of course, however some men will say or go along with anything if it means they're getting sex. I think the pp is pretty bang on the money about a conception he was lukewarm with. They generally don't foresee sex equalling baby, they'll just deal with what comes along when it comes along.

Is he a good partner? Has he really properly stepped up as a father and partner to his child's mother? Does he support you?
If the answer to all that is yes, then you need to talk to him (not 'confront') and say that you need to talk about marriage. Is he just not wanting a wedding? or not wanting a marriage? is he happy to do the marriage without a big wedding? are you? if he has issues with marriage (lots of people do, mainly if their experience of their parents marriage wasn't great) then is he willing to do everything in law to ensure you and his child are protected in the event of his death or a split? Are you willing to accept that? You really do need to air all this, no matter how uncomfortable or else the questions from others will continue to be painful and awkward and get worse as time goes on. You need to point out to him that you both need to find a compromise and be on the same page when other people ask you if you're 'going to be next' or whatever crass thing people say.

I'm ND too, so I get this and it took a lot for me to persuade my DH to propose. He's perfectly happy now, just didn't really see the point. He also never quite got around to talking about kids, just did a lot of can kicking and we no have no kids, which isn't ideal but is what it is. So I get this aspect too, it's difficult sometimes, particularly if the answer isn't going to be what is best for your needs.

I have found Claude the AI to be remarkably good at articulating my feelings about stuff I'm conflicted by or don't understand. If you add in your ND dx, it changes the discussion too. Takes the swirl of emotion and puts it into context with some explanations, which really helps. It's nicer than ChatGPT, more conversational!

Never ever waste your life hanging on for a man to decide something if its important to you.

If you are married, you are your husbands next of kin, you and your child inherit in the absence of a will, and you are entitled to a portion of the marital assets, eg house pensions etc , if you split up.

If you are not married, all you are entitled to is child support and any major contribution to the house (eg an extension) should you split up. Otherwise you leave with what you came with. Even still together, if he is ill you can be denied access to the hospital by his family. If he dies his relations can kick you out of your home if they inherit half.

To me, unless all the assets were yours when you can into the relationship, these are all good reasons to be married. You need to ask him to marry you, or explain why not. Write a letter/email if necessary- your written communication is good. If you don't get a clear positive response and then clear definite plans then its time to get your ducks in a row and go. Because you already know he values marriage- he has already told you so, he just doesn't want to marry you.

The only acceptable exception to this is if he is worried about the kind of wedding and cost. In that case you may be able to arrange something you will both like: but again only accept a definite plan - don't be fobbed of with 'the time isn't right' or 'when x happens' . It's soon or never.

If not you should leave ( or kick him out if its your house). Value yourself! You can build a lovely life with your child ( change their surname to yours) and possibly meet someone else and marry them.
Don't settle. If he doesn't want to marry you it means he thinks there is someone else out there he will want to marry, and he will leave you and your child when he finds her.

From my perspective, the wedding is just the symbol of the commitment. It’s not about the party but that he’s committed and wants to spend the rest of his life with her.

OP. I would read “He’s Just Not That Into You”. I’m not saying he’s not but the answer will be much clearer after this quick read.

If you are not married, all you are entitled to is child support and any major contribution to the house (eg an extension) should you split up. Otherwise you leave with what you came with. Even still together, if he is ill you can be denied access to the hospital by his family. If he dies his relations can kick you out of your home if they inherit half.

If they own the house as joint tenants then the marriage bit is irrelevant.

It takes a long time to organise a wedding, in reality, if you want a special event with close relatives and friends there. So, marriage ‘asap’, to me, would be at least 6 months to a year away! We booked our wedding over one year ahead because we wanted a particular church and reception venue and we had to take into account impossible dates for some family members and our own jobs! A marriage in 29 days would definitely look like a ‘shotgun’ wedding in the old-fashioned sense. OP probably envisaged a nice event surrounded by at least some family and friends so that would take a while to plan and organise.

OP, hard though you know it will be for you, it would be best if you could start the conversation on this, reminding him of the original plans you both had for marriage and why it was delayed. Perhaps, rather than an ultimatum you could inform him that you are interested in moving ahead with planning the wedding now and is this still what he wants? Then see what he says. If the answer is no, he doesnt want marriage, or a stalling response, you have time to think it through and get yourself organised if you want to end the relationship. It wont be as dramatic as an ultimatum which may result either in him agreeing to go ahead when his heart isn’t in it or forcing an immediate split which may be more traumatic than it needs to be for bothof you and your child.