What will it take for the Government to enact welfare reform?

[Schlossadler]

What has to break, before the Government is finally willing to enact welfare reform?

It’s not about disposable cash —bands head against wall— it’s about access to the same things as others. Fucking hell. So disabled people shouldn’t be able to go out with friends as that costs more (travel for example) or they aren’t allowed a hobby.

Almost everything my daughter does involves extra cost- travel to see her friends, going to the cinema or theatre, going on a standard family day out. Are you saying she shouldn’t have those things because she’s disabled? I not suggesting tax payers fork out for 5 star all inclusive for her.

A number of posters are evidently still clinging to the fallacy that we are all equal, and equally deserving of a certain income - whether provided by the state, or by ones own efforts.

This entitlement culture remains one of the major reasons we have the welfare ‘complex’ we do.

Some of the gaslighting is meanwhile off the charts…

Proper wage is defined by the market (buyers negotiate with sellers) with the bottom held artificially high due to NMW.

Surely you’re not denying women have the autonomy to not get pregnant? Outwith criminal scenarios, but even then there’s options

I’m not sure this analogy works. Two people would get paid the same for the same job. No matter the ethnicity one person wouldn’t get an extra state payment a month due to that.

Exactly. But just by being able life is more expensive. Actually going to work is often more expedient disabled people because the travel costs more for example.

My point is why is it acceptable to say disabled people should just put up with more expensive lives but not apply that to other equality characteristics?

Well, a lot of the people in the categories you just named are living in poverty too. Why aren’t you directing your ire at those who have contributed to this being a country of pay that isn’t enough to live on and not enough jobs to go around in the first place? Oh, but I know the answer to that one - it’s easier to punch down and pick on the vulnerable.

And yet there is a massive disability pay gap.

Disabled people pay tax! Often higher rates of it too! Are you saying disabled people don’t contribute to society?

Given the tone of your posts on this thread, I certainly know what I think the answer is.

No, you’ve misunderstood me. I’m not sure how you reached that conclusion tbh. I was trying to point out to OP that many of the people they claim to be lobbying for are in poverty themselves. Nothing about who does or doesn’t pay tax.
[Edited to add: that was in reply to @CitationNeeded. Did you mean to reply to OP rather than me?]

I happily put my hand in my pocket for those less fortunate than me. My self assessment return evidences that.

I’m not happy to spend a penny on the lazy and feckless.

And that's why PIP concept is wrong.

Provide a reasonable standard of living for people who can't provide it for themselves - yes, sure. Equalise them - absolutely not

Go on. Please articulate the objective issue with what I’ve proposed.

Not an emotive or virtue signalling response: objective.

Excuse me, my ire is firmly directed at the government - if that’s not punching up, I don’t know what is. People gaming the welfare system? Reprehensible. Shameful. But Labour have positively enabled them, in a naked attempt to secure votes.

You appear to be another who believes egalitarianism exists - it doesn’t. Jobs and skills are not fungible - it doesn’t work like that. So, drive away the talent, the entrepreneurs, the material risk takers, the creative, and their tax revenue.

Honestly, I despair.

Here we go. Resulting to insults rather than objective facts.

Funny how it’s always those against the Tory’s that result to insults. Not those against Lib Dem / Labour / Reform etc. I wonder what it says about the intellect and ability to hold a reasoned debate of those throwing the insults?

Oh, now we’re resorting to ‘virtue signalling’ are we. 🙄

It isn’t ‘virtue signalling’ to say that no decent society treats its citizens like prisoners unless they have committed an actual crime, ffs.

It’s odd then that all this happened under 14 years of Tory government and it’s the current Labour government that’s planning to increase apprenticeships, build houses to create jobs and bring a million non productive young people into training or the workforce. It seems that all the problems that piled up between 2010 and 2024 are being laid at the door of the current government. I wonder where the logic in that lies because I sure as hell can’t see it.

I’m a parent of two adult offspring “stuck on benefits”

They both have autism. Do you want to know what would have helped avoid this? Giving them an education that actually met their needs. Giving them the mental health care when they needed it instead of cutting services to the bone. My son is very ambitious, wants to do business studies. Absolutely would have been a candidate for university but is so damaged by his schooling from 11+ that he’ll probably never be able to work. And when that finally dawns on him that he has no future, and that his aspirations will come to nothing he will probably fall into psychosis.

Social services are on their fucking knees if we care anything about those more vulnerable we need to close some tax loopholes, we need to raise salaries and get the money out of the hands of billionaires.

There are fewer jobs now. And working conditions are poorer. And too many salaries aren’t enough to exist on. That’s just three things that have changed in recent years.

But that’s just ridiculous. People wouldn’t earn different amounts because of the colour of their skin

As the thread draws to a close, a warning from history that some really need to heed...

I absolutely don’t doubt you could talk about them all day. The second line though, I doubt you’d sink to using it for another group.

Good thread op, until the next one.

Oh there will be plenty like this, sadly.