What will it take for the Government to enact welfare reform?

[Schlossadler]

What has to break, before the Government is finally willing to enact welfare reform?

You dodged that one.

And saying ‘let them eat cake’ on a forum is different to actually seeing a Dickensian UK emerge and the reality of that. You see a child with rags and black teeth on the street searching through bins for food as you do your shopping and most people other than psychopaths would feel that in their heart and want change.

Where are the child’s parents in the scenario you have given above?

I’m not sure what you’re referring to here, are you saying this is happening?

Not really

We all know there is a lot of misnformation on SM and they target vulnerable/ desperate people. For a lot of people it is not easy to determine what is genuine advice and what isn't.

Just like you can't define clearly who is genuine, deserving and who is feckless.

Fucking he’ll, the ableism on here! Numerous studies show that life is more expansive for disabled people, often up to 25% more. So why should PIP only be if you can’t work. Even a working disabled person is at a disadvantage. Not everything can be dealt with by workplace adjustments- what about outside of work? Are disabled people not allowed social lives? Holidays? Hobbies? All of these things also require adjustments and usually more expense.

Vouchers? What about the fact that I have to pay for more expensive travel for my disabled daughter- like taxis as she can’t manage public transport. Or fast track at the airport. Or that her safe foods are often more expensive, or the waste as often safe foods will suddenly change? Do I get more vouchers when that happens?

Waits for someone to come back and say holidays aren’t a right etc- disabled people have the right to the same standard of living as everyone else, not a basic standard of human rights and anything above that is a bonus.

PIP is no longer fit for purpose.

Here’s another fun fact- most mothers of disabled children end up giving up work and being free carers. Maybe we should start paying them? Or maybe we could invest some actual money into education, care and health to ensure this doesn’t happen?

My daughter’s DLA partly helped to balance the lack of work I could do. Carers leave is naff all.

Also love the idea of workplace reasonable adjustments. They are so hard to fight for. Employers regularly turn them down as not reasonable or affordable or “not fair on others. So let’s have thousands more tribunals- that tax payers will have to pay for.

Feel free to test me. Arrange for me to host a benefits review session for the day and I’ll happy determine who needs support and who doesn’t. If I’m stuck with any cases I’ll stick my hand up. Rest easy I’m confident I’ll get my work done without getting stuck.

Do you claim it? Do you know it’s quite hard to get? Do you have to regularly fill out forms dehumanising yourself or your child describing in detail the things they cannot do, the ways in which they can’t lead a normal life? Do you know how demoralising that is?

Agreed. I’d support that.

"disabled people have the right to the same standard of living as everyone else"

This isn't a communist country and we accept that people have different standards of living based upon their economic output. I agree with disability payments, but it's ridiculous to claim that disabled people have 'the right' to x standard of living.

They can only have the help and support that the rest of society can afford, and are willing to, pay.

PIP never has been fit for purpose. Right from the beginning when the Tories introduced it.

So no one wants PIP. What next

So because you are disabled you can’t have a holiday? Even if you are educated and want well etc? Pay tax?

Now swap that out to being a woman, being black, being gay? Fuck the ableism on here is awful.

Lets go back to the workhouse.

Tell Timms/the DWP that - it’s their words.

The Department for Work and Pensions said: “The Timms Review interim report made clear that Pip is no longer fit for purpose. The recommendations from the final report, due in autumn, will pave the way for sustainable reform.”

Surprised at the remaining love for this Labour Govt…

Also love the idea of workplace reasonable adjustments. They are so hard to fight for. Employers regularly turn them down as not reasonable or affordable or “not fair on others. So let’s have thousands more tribunals- that tax payers will have to pay for

Absolutely spot on.

It’s not about “coaching”. I was briefly during austerity, a benefits advisor. The project I worked for was called “In2work”.

As the name suggests it was about trying to get people back to work by telling them about the benefits they could access for that very thing. Clothes for interviews, follow on benefits, as examples. I was the benefits person and my colleague was a debt advisor. We let them know if they would be better off or worse off financially working (usually worse - initially). But always reiterated that a short time loss would be a long term gain.

We both also helped people fill in forms for DLA etc (now PIP).

Most didn’t get it so were then passed to our appeals officers. They always had to go to court.

95% of the time courts awarded the benefit!

Complete waste of money to get people what they were entitled to.

Thats why there are videos. The forms are brutal and people fill them in about their best days, not their worst, through pride.

I had clients who had more income than me every month. But did I want their lives? Absolutely not. I value my health and the health of my children.

Be careful what you wish for because it could happen to anyone and, as a society, we should care about the less fortunate.

Millions claim it.

Please see my earlier Q to you, thanks.

Economic output? A huge proportion of people on PIP are tax payers. And if they weren’t disabled they could easily do holidays, social events etc. But these things cost more for disabled people.

What do you mean by safe foods? In the allergy sense?

if you read the thread you’ll note the bulk of folk are advocating for better support to disabled that are in genuine need. Not less.

it’s the lazy and feckless whose support should be slashed (put simply. See previous re. Workable fair suggestions eg time limited job seekers, communal living etc).

Millions of people are disabled. 1 in 4 people in their lifetime.

I’m not disagreeing with the concept of supporting disabled, I’m merely just pointing out a hole in your argument:

paying tax doesn’t make someone a net contributor.

eg paying £1 in tax but getting £10 in PIP is still -£9

Safe foods as she is autistic. This often brings ARfid or similar issues with foods due to sensory issues. So she will eat the same food for ages, but omy eat a limited amount of food and then a bad experience of a food will mean she will no longer eat it.

During Covid she was very nearly hospitalised as food shortages in her safe foods. She is much better now, but I know many parents of ARfid children and it can cause a lot of waste and more expensive foods.