What will it take for the Government to enact welfare reform?

[Schlossadler]

What has to break, before the Government is finally willing to enact welfare reform?

No it isn’t.

You already stated that you are not bothered about what happens to them. Your options are ridiculous. As are your ideas of genuine and non genuine.

The same standard of living is an interesting concept.

Do you think that neurosurgeon, FTSE100 CEO, Deliveroo driver and train driver have the same standard of living? So which standard applies to PIP?

Are you always this rude?

I don’t vote Labour.

I didn’t say you did. I said the problem exists. Talking about the tories in each post doesn’t make the issues go away.

Not for the disabled, but for the lazy and feckless: yes please.

I think there’s an unnecessarily emotive negative reaction to workhouses.

clearly they need to be to a modern standard (think student or military barrack level of standard) by why conceptually are they wrong?

the issue is people won’t work, or claim to not be able to find any work to do and thus can’t feed themselves, house themselves, cloth themselves and therefore rely on others to do so.

the current system we have for doing so is too costly.

In a modern workhouse, they’d:
be given a job that needs doing
be clothed
be housed
be fed
be provided with any support services they need

Without being emotive and after applying some actual logical critical thinking: what’s the issue?

Yes they may not be anyone’s first choice of where to live and work, but they’re not meant to be. They’re meant to be a temporary solution of gives and gets to while someone finds their feet again.

I suspect you’ll not be able to refrain from emotive name calling and “shame yourself” and focus on objective feedback.

If you’re really saying I have to explain to you why it is not OK in a civilised society to consign disabled people to poverty for something they have no control over, you’re clearly not the sort of person who has any willingness to imagine the plight of others and you’re not owed an explanation of any kind, as far as I am concerned. Be honest, you don’t give a shit where the money comes from so long as you don’t have to put your own hand in your pocket for those less fortunate than yourself.

I don’t give a toss how I ‘come off’.

A number of comments by other posters, and my own posts have been bang on.

If you don’t like what’s being written, that’s on you. Ignore or scroll on by.

Are you genuinely advocating a return to workhouses?

See, what worries me is that you’re talking like there’s only two classes of people on benefits - the disabled and the ‘lazy and feckless’’. Are you actually claiming that anyone on benefits who isn’t disabled is lazy and feckless?

I could talk about the Tories all day. Something went wrong in most of their upbringings.

More Timms report-related data.

Means-testing Pip would save £8.2bn a year, while restricting claims among under-30s to those with the most severe disabilities would save £2.2bn, the IFS said.

Thank you so much for explaining how discussion forums work, I had no idea.

You really don’t ’give a toss’ about anything or anyone except yourself, though, do you? At least you got that bit right.

That’s subjective.

I think they’re making fantastic points. Reasoned, informed, insightful.

I don't think anyone disagrees that disabled people should be properly provided for, have decent standard of living, holidays, and their carers should have it, as well as some respite.

I think a lot of people disagree with welfare definition of disability. It currently includes all sorts of conditions which aren't truly disabling and very easy to fake. Modern life in the UK isn't more disabling than it was decades ago but rise of disabilities, esp MH, somehow coincides with wider availability of PIP.

So in brief - the challenge is not support for disabled people, the challenge is who can be classified as disabled required financial support.

Why do you keep answering on behalf of other people while oddly reluctant to answer questions yourself?

Are you asking me if I believe individuals with those specific medical conditions should be supported when I’ve previously stated those out of their luck and those with disabilities should be supported?

Can’t you work out the answer yourself?

this is going to take up a lot of the thread if we’re going to have to do the most basic piecemeal

I care about the working parents juggling childcare, the farmer, the SME owner, the people grappling with the COL, the taxpayer.

You know, all those who thought they were doing the right thing - paying their tax, contributing, that kind of thing.

It’s. An. Open. Forum.

Same and jobs generally.

You see I think some things are more disabling about modern life. Not directly linked to PIP as I’m talking about my daughter who is 14, but the education system is much less inclusive than it was 20+ years ago. I know we’ve tried to be more inclusive by including everyone. But the testing culture, strict uniforms, curriculum changes have meant that it is totally inaccessible for neurodivergent children. My daughter would probably have managed mainstream school when I was at school. Not now, she was out of school and now attends specialist provision (at enormous cost to the tax payer).

I think the job culture of zero hours work, some workplace practices are actually harder for disabled people. Add on that lots of jobs that used to be done by disabled people no longer exist in the same way.

individuals have very different cost of livings. For example, people have parental support for childcare nearby saving them £k’s, some have a spouse whilst others have sadly lost theirs. They all create differing cost bases.

No-one has the right to the same disposable cash as anyone else just because they earn the same as someone else. The world just isn’t like that. And it wouldn’t be workable to level it out.

Oops replied to wrong comment- but no I don’t think wveryone should have the same. But the point is whatever you earn (deliveroo, train driver) PIP pays for the EXTRA costs of being disabled. That’s the point. So you are on a level playing field with those peers who earn the same as you.

But now imagine saying that some people have different standards giving because they are black. Or because they are women and just shrugging your shoulders and saying that’s just the way it is.

What kinds of conditions would those be, in your opinion?